Alan Fox Posted May 26, 2015 Report Posted May 26, 2015 Good explanation Byron , correct and on point , which is why a solvent or detergent based additive will usually work on these... Quote
cujet Posted May 26, 2015 Report Posted May 26, 2015 STP is a ZDDP additive. ZDDP can reduce cam and lifter wear up to a point. More then 1400 PPM of it can cause pitting of lifter surfaces. Adding a bottle of STP will raise the level of ZDDP above this level. No longer true. It seems STP now has significantly reduced ZDDP levels. VOA testing done over at bobistheoilguy dot com shows ZDDP in a can of STP at well below 600PPM. Adding 1 can of STP (remember it's about a pint) to an 8 quart aircraft system would result in less than 40PPM ZDDP. Not enough to be helpful or harmful in real world use. However, it will increase viscosity somewhat. Again, not enough to make much difference. Quote
mike_elliott Posted May 26, 2015 Report Posted May 26, 2015 Just curious if anyone uses (or should I say- has anyone ever heard of friends ) using STP in their airplanes? I've seen it used as an assembly lube on an aircraft engine Quote
N601RX Posted May 26, 2015 Report Posted May 26, 2015 We mixed it 50/50 with aviation oil when assembling my engine. It was still a very thick solution that stays where you put it. 1 Quote
Andy95W Posted May 26, 2015 Report Posted May 26, 2015 We mixed it 50/50 with aviation oil when assembling my engine. It was still a very thick solution that stays where you put it. Exactly the way I used it on the few engine overhauls I assisted on. Quote
cliffy Posted May 27, 2015 Author Report Posted May 27, 2015 Lycoming actually calls it out as an assembly lube at 10% with 50 wt mineral oil. Quote
Cruiser Posted May 27, 2015 Report Posted May 27, 2015 Jim, I agree with you on most points. I have trouble with the notion that additives can address issues not considered by manufacturer though. Not to turn this into another camguard exchange but I don't buy into the notion that an aftermarket additive somehow can fill the shoes of what the manufacturer has formulated. In other words manufacturers have considered corrosion and have addressed it. They are not depending on camguard or waiting for an after market solution to improve upon their product! Well the reps at the Continental Engine booth at MAPAs exhibitor day tend to disagree with you. I think they are more expert on this subject Quote
PTK Posted May 27, 2015 Report Posted May 27, 2015 Well the reps at the Continental Engine booth at MAPAs exhibitor day tend to disagree with you. I think they are more expert on this subject My reference to "manufacturers" was to manufacturers of oil like Shell as in Aeroshell. They are the experts. Quote
Alan Fox Posted May 27, 2015 Report Posted May 27, 2015 So according to Pete since additives have no effect you should ignore the Lycoming service bulletin for putting in the additive on the H motors also... Quote
PTK Posted May 27, 2015 Report Posted May 27, 2015 So according to Pete since additives have no effect you should ignore the Lycoming service bulletin for putting in the additive on the H motors also... No, that's according to Alan. Let's get things straight. Quote
carusoam Posted May 27, 2015 Report Posted May 27, 2015 Is it safe to say... 1) STP is used to increase the viscosity of, or thicken oil. 2) thickened oil will stay in place and not run-off, making it useful for engine assembly. 3) thickened oil will be retained better by worn oil rings. 4) thickened oil can decrease oil flow into tight tolerance areas. 5) Oil comes in several weights commercially. 6) a high time, or worn cylinder or rings may benefit by using a heavier weight oil. 7) proper use of STP in aircraft engines includes use in engine assembly. Reminds me of automotive products for high mileage vehicles. Helpful, but doesn't magically turn the old worn hag into a young beauty... Best regards, -a- Quote
cliffy Posted May 27, 2015 Author Report Posted May 27, 2015 I really was interested in the member's thoughts. STP hasn't been discussed as far as I know It did liven things up around here. And there are some here with fantastic backgrounds with opinions that can be backed up. I enjoy hearing both sides of opinions. There is always something that can be learned in these discussions. daver328- :-) TV is usually boring to me and I don't do social media for the same reasons. 1 Quote
MyNameIsNobody Posted May 27, 2015 Report Posted May 27, 2015 I am pretty sure THIS is social media Cliffy... 1 Quote
cliffy Posted May 27, 2015 Author Report Posted May 27, 2015 For me "social media" is Facebook, Twitter, etc. I'm not smart enough to own a smart phone. Besides, I can't read the small screens on them anyway :-) 1 Quote
Marauder Posted May 27, 2015 Report Posted May 27, 2015 So according to Pete since additives have no effect you should ignore the Lycoming service bulletin for putting in the additive on the H motors also... No, that's according to Alan. Let's get things straight.At our next Northeast fly-in, let me know a bit in advance so I can rent a hot tub and fill it with STP. I would love to see the two of you settle this in a hot additive wrestling match -- sure would beat the "let's eat" followed by drooling over each other's airplane thing we do now. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2 Quote
PTK Posted May 27, 2015 Report Posted May 27, 2015 Only if you bring the girls and they participate! I do understand if you can't bring them in the Mooney. You can ship them ahead! 2 Quote
MyNameIsNobody Posted May 27, 2015 Report Posted May 27, 2015 So just to be clear STP in a hot tub with plus sizeers is technical vs. social. O.K....Got it Quote
HRM Posted May 27, 2015 Report Posted May 27, 2015 I'm amazed at how gullible some people are! The psychological placebo effect at work! I ceased being amazed years ago. That said, before every flight I spit into the oil fill tube. This action, and I have verified it with my MVP-50 engine monitor, has reduced CHT temps by 50º and has increased my climb out at TO by 250 FPM! Oil usage has been reduced to less than a pint per 25 hours. The EAA (Expectoration Advantage Action), as I call it, has also put my GAMI spread at 0 GPH! It is nothing short of miraculous! Try it! 5 Quote
PTK Posted May 27, 2015 Report Posted May 27, 2015 Jim STP wont quiet the lifters on startup , I have been an Auto Mechanic for 35 years , you may want to try about 6 to 8 ounces of ATF in the crankcase at oil change , I have been doing this for years on older cars , and it works about 90% of the time....You should consult with Peter first ......He is the expert...There's a winner! That's a good one! With advice like this it's no wonder people dump all kinds of garbage in their engines! I've heard of shady car dealers do this to lemon cars! I'd expect this kind of advice from the kid behind the counter at the auto supplies store or the guy who reads car magazines or a shady used car dealer! They spread BS like wildfire. Let me append my list: ATF does not belong in the engine oil! It doesn't belong in the combustion chamber either! I've heard of that too! Unless you want to fumigate the entire neighborhood! Why in the world would anybody want to do this? Show me an auto manufacturer who endorses putting ATF in the oil. I submit to you that if there's a sludge problem in the engine something is majorly wrong that ATF will not fix! How about changing the oil regularly like a clock especially if city driving in stop and go traffic? A high quality engine oil has all the detergents and dispersents you need in your car engine! No need to dump corrosive ATF in the oil. A transmission is a whole different animal than your engine! Quote
jetdriven Posted May 28, 2015 Report Posted May 28, 2015 ATF is corrosive? What about TPP additive in Aeroshell oil? Quote
Marauder Posted May 28, 2015 Report Posted May 28, 2015 I need a bigger hot tub... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 3 Quote
Alan Fox Posted May 28, 2015 Report Posted May 28, 2015 Pete I find it amusing that you have NO PRACTICAL KNOWLEGE of automotive at all , NONE ... ATF quiets lifters , end of discussion ....water in the intake charge will clean the piston tops , solvents in the combustion chamber will free stuck rings and clean ring lands..... I used to put rislone in Acura engines at the dealership under manufacturers service bulletin for you guessed it noisey lifters, I used to put GM top engine cleaner in intakes under manufacturers warranty for rough Idle , BMW currently puts friction additives in transmission fluid for slippage...All additives .... All very effective...... 1 Quote
MyNameIsNobody Posted May 28, 2015 Report Posted May 28, 2015 He's no Peter Tork. Me, I'm a Believer... 1 Quote
PTK Posted May 28, 2015 Report Posted May 28, 2015 Alan, it's one thing to say that "you" dump xyz garbage and contaminate someone's engine oil because that's what "you" believe to be a quick fix. It's totally another to say that Acura endorses some aftermarket garbage officially in service bulletin. Same for BMW. It's one thing to say that BMW endorses dumping garbage in the transmission and totally another saying that BMW has their own speced fluid that they consider to be lifetime fluid. If another fluid meets the specs they have no issue with it. (I've been driving BMWs forever serviced by BMW.) Please do post the service bulletin that officially endorses rislone and the name of the aftermarket additive you say BMW puts in transmissions. Quote
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