M-20 Turbo Normalizer Group Discount

[aerobat95]

I would be interested in seeing what sort of price they would be willing to sell a kit for.  I just wonder what the price would be for the install.  Its to bad Tornado Alley Turbo isnt interested in the conversion for the Mooneys as they will be just down the road for me when I get to Vance AFB. 

[jetdriven]

For the same manifold pressure the intake charge air temp is going to be higher with a turbo, reducing detonation margins.  I'm not sure the longevity impact to the Lycoming IO-360 but this engine does have high compression and at full power, runs close to detonation limits. Running it with a 130 degree intake temp and 30 inches of manifold pressure might send it over the edge.  There must be some reason Lycoming never built a TIO-360.

[John Pleisse]

Around $20k...yes I would Scott..... But the STC holder doesn't live in reality. M20 or TA...$36k is not worth it. 40% of it is mark up and return on investment. They package and sell already available components that cost less than $15k. I want them to make money, but they should make money by selling in volume, not boutique. Nevermind the fact it is a minimal 60 hour install. These STC holders behave like pharmaseutical companies when you take them to task on pricing. Their pricing is based on what it would it cost you to sell your 201, buy a 231 and then add new OEM turbo, cooling and exhaust system components. Sadly this is why they don't sell them. Sandman was a great guy and I would have bought the system for around $20K.

[John Pleisse]

Quote: jetdriven

For the same manifold pressure the intake charge air temp is going to be higher with a turbo, reducing detonation margins.  I'm not sure the longevity impact to the Lycoming IO-360 but this engine does have high compression and at full power, runs close to detonation limits. Running it with a 130 degree intake temp and 30 inches of manifold pressure might send it over the edge.  There must be some reason Lycoming never built a TIO-360.

[KSMooniac]

Quote: jetdriven

For the same manifold pressure the intake charge air temp is going to be higher with a turbo, reducing detonation margins.  I'm not sure the longevity impact to the Lycoming IO-360 but this engine does have high compression and at full power, runs close to detonation limits. Running it with a 130 degree intake temp and 30 inches of manifold pressure might send it over the edge.  There must be some reason Lycoming never built a TIO-360.

[Jeff_S]

I got re-interested in this a few weeks ago, but then read a bit more on their website and learned that it adds about 20 pounds of weight to the nose of the airplane. My plane already seems pretty nose-heavy as it is ("seems" isn't the right word: the official W&B shows that it is practically impossible to to load my plane aft of the CG envelope, but very easy to load it fore of the CG with fuel and a few normal sized dudes in the front). So that, coupled with the fact that I don't really want to start messing with oxygen and everything you'd need to get full use out of it, has deterred me. Oh, and the cost!  But that said, I would be interested to at least know what kind of deal we can get.

[danb35]

Quote: N4352H

You are not boosting hot exhaust gas, but instead, cooled fresh air. The M20 Turbo STC has no provision for peak or LOP ops. None are prescribed for this engine. It provides no boost, so comparison to turbo charged manifold temps isn't correct. Just don't forget the mixture on the way down to avoid detonation.

[jbreda]

For those of you who have an E or F wih the original cowling/air box configuration - I have a completely rebuilt Rayjay turbo normalizer system that needs a home.  With that configuration, it is about a forty hour install.  I have all the documentation including 2 STC's, one to install the turbo normalizer system onto an IO-360 and another to put the turbo normalized engine into the E ot F airframe.  I have all referenced drawings, install manual, FAA POH letter.  Can be installed via STC with a logbook entry and 337 per STC.  Exhaust is new, rebuilt 1 gauge heavier stainless steel than the original.  I have all major parts.  Price wouldbe 1/2 of the M-30 kit and install less as well as the parts fit. 

It is the same set of major components as the M-20 system without the intercooler, pop-off valve and with a manual wastegate instead of fixed wastegate. 

Pictured below are the major parts of the turbo system.

I also have a second set of pipes for someone who has the system already and needs a new set of pipes due to the age of their system.

I can be reached at (617) 877-0025 or e-mail johnabreda@yahoo.com  Thanks.

[fantom]

Scott...I'm somewhere between mildly curious and vaguely interested. Bill Sandman was a good man, and is missed!

[John Pleisse]

Quote: danb35

Raising the pressure of any gas (including air) raises its temperature.  Boyle's Law, IIRC--PV=nRT.  If you take ambient air at 20" Hg, and supply 30" Hg of air to the fuel servo, what have you done?  You've boosted the pressure, that's what, and that will raise its temperature (as will passing through a hot turbocharger).  This has no effect on the engine's ability to run at, rich of, or lean of peak.

 

[danb35]

Quote: N4352H

This STC is a normalizer and has innercoolers front and back end. Scott has the link below. On descent, if mixture is left lean and you descend into higher pressure, you will detonate......with any plane. 

[knute]

Now, the specifics of this kit?  I'm not so sure--their website indicates it's a fixed wastegate, but also makes it sound like you don't need to adjust throttle with altitude to maintain 30".  I'm not sure how both of those could be true, but I could be missing something.

From reading their website, the wastegate on the hot exhaust gas side of things is fixed, but they have another mechanism on the fresh air side of things to limit MP.  They tout this as an advantage, since moving parts in the hot exhaust environment degrade much more quickly than having moving parts on the intake air side.  Off the top of my head, while I see the maintenance advantages, I expect that there is some efficiency loss with this approach since you would be compressing intake air (fixed wastegate) that you then vent some of to keep it under 30" of manifold pressure at altitudes below critical.