OP ED-"Little Timmy Wants to Know Why Nobody Likes Airplanes Anymore?

[flyboy0681]

I am not. Yes to a)

No, they need to save, get insurance or stay healthy...or die.

Life is about choices.

My wife's grand-dad was a barber and an alcoholic. Smoked. Got throat cancer. Died. Left nothing to support his wife other than SS. 7 kids chose to give their mom $100 a month to supplement her SS. No government support beyond what was "mandated". Family helping family. All went to college, graduated.

So? Money magazine article...

We kids would pony up for my mom, or not. I don't want or need a government mandate...

Let's get that across the board cut done to balance the budget deficit.

I am good with that.

Share the pain that has been created by a Federal government open pocketbook...

No? Recipients won. They voted and it was not R&R.

"Free" stuff mandate...

Train keeps rolling toward the cliff...

 

I'm assuming your wife's grandfather was on Medicare (or was it before 1966?) and that he didn't leave his wife a mountain full of medical bills which would have most likely thrust her into bankruptcy. I think it's great that 7 children each contributed $100 each month and it's a noble thing to do. But what about those children that are just squeaking by and can barely afford their own rent? What about couples that never had children? I know plenty of them, some are family and some are friends - I bet you do too.

 

Again, I still tend to think that in your world it's the fault of the individual if s/he didn't succeed in life and make a very good living. If everyone were successful, who would be manning the counter at McDonald's and painting your house when it's needed?

 

Before these programs seniors lived in abject poverty, and while an awful lot still do even with SS & Medicare, the numbers are way down from their inception. People often wonder, why does Medicare cost so much now than it did in the 60's and 70's. The answer lies in its success. Since the program started, life expectancy for seniors has risen 15 years, due entirely to the healthcare they receive. It's a shame you would deny a fellow American the gift of a long life, but that's your prerogative and I respect it.

[flyboy0681]

My wife's grandmother was head of housekeeping at a small hospital until she retired shortly after her husbands death. They had health insurance...

 

If they were around today do you think they could both afford the combined $6,000 to $8,000 premium each month?

[flyboy0681]

That premium is not cast in stone...nor is the country's future. You and "The Keeper of the Collective Wisdom", or Shadowman certainly have Van Jones Respect and Admiration....and power and control. Is that enough?

NOPE. Not until every conservative voice is extermininated and all are brought into the collective will you be satisfied.

NOPE, on second thought you both will still be who you are and that means you will just move on to the next area of control...shouting the voices of dissent down...calling them haters and narcissists...flying off on bizarre tangents and using a lot of polysylable words, smoke and mirrors to get your sheep to follow.

BAAAAaaaaaaa.

NOPE.

 

 

OK, let's say I'm wildly off the mark by 100%.

 

Would your grandparents be able to afford monthly premiums of $3-5k?

 

It appears that in your alternate universe insurance premiums for an 85 year old man runs around $75 a month.

[flyboy0681]

The United States has the highest corporate tax rates in the free world, thirty-five percent! It's not just companies in the recent news like Burger King moving their headquarters to Canada. A fifteen-percent savings! Company after company has left the USA due to excessive regulation and taxation. Someday my Mooney nay not bear an "N" number!

Not only is aviation stagnant, but in the marine and science industries, several key leaders have decided to continue their stellar professional careers outside the United States.

 

The corporate tax arguing point is old. While the tax rate may reach as high as 35%, corporations here also enjoy hefty deductions not found elsewhere, witness Exxon, which does not pay any tax. If you were to also look at how much Johnson & Johnson pays, you would find their effective tax rate to be around 8%. A far cry from 35%, wouldn't you say? Let's add to the mix that S-Corps don't pay corporate tax and there are millions of these around the country. I'm wondering if there are any companies out there that pay 35%. The GAO in 2013 reported that the effective corporate tax rate in the US is 13%.

 

If there are any Mooniacs out there that pay 35%, I'd like to hear from you.

[flyboy0681]

U.S. Citizens and Companies ARE taxed TOO MUCH...and then the Government at all levels, but primarily the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT spends it...all of it...and borrrows. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

I welcome a total revamp of the tax code in the U.S. A flat tax and VAT tax (on consumption) works for me.

 

Scott, you're killing me. VAT is a socialistic concept.

 

However, I do agree with you on a flat tax. I also agree that we are taxed too much, but having done extensive travel around the world, I know for a fact that we are also among the least taxed.

[Hank]

VAT is a bad move! Aluminum ore would be taxed when moved from mine to foundry, taxed again leaving the smelter in rolls, taxed again when purchased by both the distributor and the wholesaler, then again when your A&P buys a piece. And you think repairs to your Mooney are expensive now!! Just wait until a VAT is implemented. Yes, this is how it works in Europe, and look how strong and robust their many economies are. Can we please not follow their lead? Just once?

[flyboy0681]

The old "look at what this evil company paid" argument is a little old too ... When every time someone proposes a flat tax and abolishing the IRS ... Democrats scream bloody murder ... and start saying we won't be able to fund Medicare, Social Security, old people will be eating dog food instead of getting their prescriptions ... blah, blah, blah.

The whole comment of the post was half-hearted ... more "made in jest" ... I was simply setting up the picture, which gave those of us with GOOD SENSE a pretty good laugh!

Sorry if you didn't enjoy that VERY GOOD HUMOR.

:-)

 

And my response wasn't meant to convey that big bad corporations don't pay their fair share, it was only to demonstrate that we have the reputation for having the largest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world but it's a facade as no corporation, unless they have absolutely no deductions and expenses, actually pays it. It's akin to an American worker being in the 35% tax bracket based on income alone and actually paying 35%.

[flyboy0681]

Fine. I am good with a flat tax that covers ALL and no Fed penny tax on consumption (back end) through retail....

I would love to see IRS abolished

 

The IRS isn't exactly my favorite agency either, but you know what happens when there is no enforcement.

[chrisk]

VAT is a bad move! Aluminum ore would be taxed when moved from mine to foundry, taxed again leaving the smelter in rolls, taxed again when purchased by both the distributor and the wholesaler, then again when your A&P buys a piece. And you think repairs to your Mooney are expensive now!! Just wait until a VAT is implemented. Yes, this is how it works in Europe, and look how strong and robust their many economies are. Can we please not follow their lead? Just once?

 

I agree that VAT is a bad idea. Assuming that inventory is financed, it means the VAT is also financed until inventory is sold.  That drives up costs (and makes just in time inventory really important). It ranks right up there with states that have businesses pay property tax on their inventory.

[flyboy0681]

I agree that VAT is a bad idea. Assuming that inventory is financed, it means the VAT is also financed until inventory is sold.  That drives up costs (and makes just in time inventory really important). It ranks right up there with states that have businesses pay property tax on their inventory.

 

I'm glad there are others here that agree with me on this point.

[Marauder]

Wow! 17 pages and Timmy is still alive. 

[rob]

Where do you drive your second hand Porsche?

[carusoam]

I see today, Timmy has reached 18(pages long).

He is now legal to vote and move to another country on his own. He no longer cares about flying.

My, how they grow so fast.

He just got up and left....

[Marauder]

I see today, Timmy has reached 18(pages long).

He is now legal to vote and move to another country on his own. He no longer cares about flying.

My, how they grow so fast.

He just got up and left....

Having lived in Jersey, here is what you and I should do

"FORGETDAABOUT!"

At the rate these guys are going, Timmy will be old enough to collect social security... Oops, I think I may have just started another topic for them.

[rob]

This thread needs to be closed. And some of you need to be medicated. Oh, and Scott, thanks for the private note; were you too scared to post it publicly?

[flyboy0681]

What is your "favorite" government agency Flyboy? Please do share?

 

That's an easy one, NASA, Centers for Disease Control, NOAA, Postal Service, National Institutes of Health, Peace Corps, National Park Service, Dept Veteran's Affairs, NHTSA.

 

And you?

[Danb]

Can't we all just get along...

[flyboy0681]

Funny. Really....? Favorite/Singular....Should have known there would be a laundry list.

 

Since you didn't answer my question I'll assume you take the typical conservative stance that you never met a federal agency that you liked.

[flyboy0681]

The United States Army

 

I consider that a branch and not an agency. Come on, certainly you must have one that you like outside of the military.

[flyboy0681]

NOPE

 

Not one? Not even the FDA which looks after your food supply? Not the CDC, which keeps dreadful diseases under control? Not the National Cancer Institute which has funded and developed therapies over the past few decades that may have saved the life of a loved one? National Weather Service? 

 

There are examples of countries that don't have such programs, just look up Somalia.

[flyboy0681]

So that "facade" you speak of is why company after company moves to outside the United States. They left so they could pay the HIGHER taxes outside the United States you say? Really?

Burger King is only the latest. Eaton, Ensco, Rowan, Master Blenders (a spinoff of Sara Lee Corp) to name a few ... Before that Transocean Ltd., Nobel Corp, Weatherford a International ... Here's an old Wall Street Journal article:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10000872396390444230504577615232602107536

This is all common knowledge except that the liberal media won't cover objectively ... or at all! If they do cover it - they try to paint these businesses as evil traitors, rather consider if it JUST MIGHT BE overtaxation and/or deliberate, public and plainly worded threats from Democrats in Congress and the White House to regulate and tax them out of existence. They all packed up and left!

Remember all those "evil, rich, greedy" American Oil companies? Big bad liberals in congress called them to Washington and began to harass and threaten them publicly and question their right to make a profit. So now it's BP (British Petroleum)/ Chevron, and Dutch/ Shell Oil. (Liberals HATE Exxon, but I seriously wonder if they are the only ones left in the USA? I'll have to look up Texaco?) the rest packed their bags and left!

And liberals talk STILL smack about taxing the oil companies into oblivion, what do you think they'll do? How do we think they'll respond? They'll hit the road like the others!

What liberals never want to discuss are bothersome little facts like how much does the oil company make on a gallon of gas, versus how much does the government make off a gallon of gas?

So flyboy, How much does the oil company make off a gallon of gas, and how much does the government get off a gallon of gas? The company worked and spent millions to search explore, extract, ship, refine, market transport and retail their product. What did the government do?

 

What's interesting about the WSJ article, yes I read the entire thing, is that it backed up exactly what I said: that no company pays the 35% tax and that the effective rate is less than 20%.

 

The Maxine Waters video was from the summer of 2008, when gas prices reached their all time high and American's were seeking answers. I'm not defending her because, well, I don't care for her politics, but her very long pause speaks volumes, at least to me. It's absurd to think that congress would take over the oil industry. This is not Putin's America (I'm sure I will get some very colorful responses from that remark).

 

Not sure why you brought this up because I don't believe I took issue with the subject of gas prices. I'm educated enough to know that its price is controlled by good old supply and demand and that, contrary to what some on Fox say, the president does not have any direct control over it. Right now there seems to be an over supply and prices are on a downward trend. Of course there are some that say Obama has ordered that gas prices be lowered in anticipation of the midterms.

[flyboy0681]

Asked and answered.

 

Not even the FAA's ATC system? You think even that is unnecessary?

 

I think you are being disingenuous, but I'm in total awe if this is what you truly believe.

[flyboy0681]

Took over Healthcare. Took over GM. Really, taking over the Oil&Gas companies "in the national interests" is a big stretch....?

Not so much.

 

 

Took over healthcare? My carrier is still Humana and I'm still using the same doctors that I've been using for the past decade. One thing that has changed, which I have mentioned here several times before, is that my premium is down to $1,250 from $2,800 a year ago for better coverage.

 

To listen to you it sounds like all private insurers were forced out of business and American's were placed on a nationalized, single payer system. When did that happen?

[flyboy0681]

Maybe we were reading a different article? You see what you want to see ..

I am tired if So yes they didn't pay 35%. So are so informed and so correct, the article proved they didn't pay 35%. Now maybe you missed the point? It isn't about 35%, 19%, ... 25% ... IT'S COMPLETELY CLEAR THAT COMPANY AFTER COMPANY MOVED OUT IF THE U S AND SAVED MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS IN TAXES. The article makes it ABUNDANTLY CLEAR that tax rates in the U S, are higher and companies are moving away, and by doing so they save millions of dollars.

 

 

I can read very well, thank you.

 

To me this is a slippery slope. It's clear to me that some companies would leave the country and setup shop if it means saving even 2% on their tax rate. I know I won't find a single sympathetic ear here (and that's fine), but I believe that corporations do have some social responsibilities other than serving the shareholders 100% of the time. They have the responsibility to make sure they don't destroy the environment, that they create products and services that are as safe as they can be (acknowledging that nothing is foolproof), that they treat their employees fairly and, yes here it is, that they contribute to the country, which means paying some taxes (after all, they are now people too, aren't they?)

 

I'm well vested in the stock market and I would accept (and I have) 20¢ as a dividend instead of 23¢ if it means the company gave something back. If I have 5,000 shares, will the extra $150 change my life? Would it change yours?

 

How many times have you heard that an athlete's contract came due and they moved to another team because they were offered an extra $2m on a $50m contract? What difference does it make to the athlete if they are making $2m more on such a huge sum? To me this is the same thing.

 

I guess it comes down to loyalty. I'm very loyal and to me loyalty is everything.

[flyboy0681]

We're not so far apart as it may seem, and I value loyalty greatly. Sorry to sound condescending, but your response prompted mine ...

That, however, does not change the appearance or evidently the reality, that the government is perfectly willing to gouge businesses to pay for it's own out of control spending. No loyalty there. The government wants the money. One company in the article was paying 28%. It's too much.

Thanks for your patient and respectful responses, I'll try to do the same.

 

Glad I struck a chord. 15% seems fair to me, the same amount that I pay for long term capital gains.