Ready to Bit the Aspen Bullet... I think...

[Ragsf15e]

I knew when I bought my "new" 1968 M20F model a couple months ago there would be a few upgrades I'd like to do.  She's actually got a very nice panel, good interior, and serviceable paint, but after a few recent IFR flights around Texas, I think I'm about ready to put in an Aspen PRO PFD 1000.  I think I'll be $$ limited to just the one screen for now.

 

I was hoping someone out there would have some experience with this and give me some round number estimates or even a recommendation for avionics shops with Mooney/Aspen experience (I'm based in SW Texas).

 

Here's what I've got to hook up to it... STEC 30 with Alt hold, Garmin 430, and a Garmin SL30 #2 NAV/COM.

 

I'd like to remove the whole vacuum system when I do this, so I understand I'll have to purchase an electric B/U ADI.

 

What am I missing?  Anyone have any clues how much it will cost, where I should go to do it, or what else I need to do to get rid of the vacuum system?

 

Thanks so much for your help, I'll attach a current panel picture just in case you want to see what the previous owner did for me (thank you!)!

 

Rags

[ArtVandelay]

Nice panel, I assume you will move VSI under the altimeter as is customary.   Sarasota avionics in Florida quotes 12K for generic install.

You already have GPSS, will you keep or convert to the ASPEN GPSS?

Why the desire to get rid of the vacuum system, most keep it to drive the now backup AI?

[Danb]

Get Chris to chime in he's set up quite nicely similar to what you'd want...

[gsxrpilot]

That's a very nice panel to be replacing.  Most vintage Mooneys really need a panel upgrade, but I wouldn't include your's in that category.  But Aspen's sure are nice.

[Ragsf15e]

Thanks for the feedback.  I want to get rid of the vacuum system because I like the reliability of the electric and/or solid state ADIs.  I'd also prefer not to have to worry about the vacuum pump going out every so often.

 

Definitely moving the VSI under the altimeter.  That was the first question I asked when looking at the aircraft, but the owner was ready (he'd asked too).  The King HSI that's in it is square all the way back and won't fit in the spot under the ADI so it had to swap with the VSI.

 

Actually the GPSS was one of the things I was wondering about too... I think it's standard on the Aspen PRO, so I'm guessing that will be through the Aspen, but I'm not sure.

 

There are lots of reasons I'm looking for a shop in Texas that has done a few of these in Mooneys...  Maybe Chris will chime in if he's already done something similar?

[Marauder]

I replied to your PM on the pricing question. The Aspen Pro comes with GPSS. I see your STEC has altitude hold. Can you fly an ILS with it? If so, if your 430 is a 430W, then you will get LPV precision AP control.

As for the VSI; you can lose it. The Aspen has both a digital and analog VSI gauge built in. Also, you can eliminate both the HSI and CDI if you wanted to. I would keep the second CDI unless you add a second Aspen.

If you are worried about real estate, if you do purchase a second Aspen, get the one with the extended battery. With that unit, you can eliminate both your ASI and altimeter. Let me know if you have more questions.

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[Tom]

To the OP:

In the event that you are not aware, Part 23 changes might allow you to use non TSO'd equipment.  With a panel as nice as yours, I'd personally wait to see if the rules change (unless money is no object). 

[Bob_Belville]

Pretty nice panel already!

 

As Chris mentioned you can remove the VSI (it takes a little while to adjust to the drum/digital) and you will remove one NAV head. That will mean moving the vacuum AI to have a vertical double space. I have a single Aspen but I kept the vacuum pump which lifts my step as well as the AI  (I removed a BU vacuum system, if I loss vacuum it would be of little consequence, not sure I would recommend you spend that money to go all electric. I have a GPS 696 so lots of emergency redundancies.  

 

In Dec 2012 I paid $8995 plus $4500 install for the Aspen which included removing an old HSI, VSI, and ADF as well as moving Altimeter and AI and connecting Aspen to existing STEC50, new GTN750 and existing KX155.

[ToddDPT]

Albuquerque (KABQ) is where Aspen is made so who else to better install it than the actual Aspen people?  I have the Single Aspen display (soon to be dual), which was in the plane at purchase, and my uncle has the dual Aspen in his turbo Arrow.  He had his installed in Albuquerque.

[John Pleisse]

Thanks for the feedback.  I want to get rid of the vacuum system because I like the reliability of the electric and/or solid state ADIs.  I'd also prefer not to have to worry about the vacuum pump going out every so often.

 

Definitely moving the VSI under the altimeter.  That was the first question I asked when looking at the aircraft, but the owner was ready (he'd asked too).  The King HSI that's in it is square all the way back and won't fit in the spot under the ADI so it had to swap with the VSI.

 

Actually the GPSS was one of the things I was wondering about too... I think it's standard on the Aspen PRO, so I'm guessing that will be through the Aspen, but I'm not sure.

 

There are lots of reasons I'm looking for a shop in Texas that has done a few of these in Mooneys...  Maybe Chris will chime in if he's already done something similar?

 

I would not get rid of your vacuum system. The redundancy is free and the Aspens can fail/red X. Remember, many fully certificated glass panels operate on the premise of a dual electric buss with two batteries. Unless you want to purchase the Aspen 2000 series Evolution with the 1 hour battery back-up, this wouldn't be attainable. I have the 2000 system and would never get rid of the vacuum system. Your Mooney was designed with both electric and vacuum. Why mess up the design?

 

***Vacuum/static footnote- The VSI on the Aspen is terrible. In it's largest setting, you can barely read it. Keep your old VSI. In fact, just sub the Aspen for the HSI and AI and leave everything the same. You'll be glad you did.

 

The Aspen will become your GPSS interface to the autopilot, another $3,000 added value for your Aspen purchase. Your GPSS $$$ could go to upgrading your G-430 to a WAAS.

[ToddDPT]

***Vacuum/static footnote- The VSI on the Aspen is terrible. In it's largest setting, you can barely read it. Keep your old VSI. 

 

 

I do agree with this.  I still can't get used to looking at that little VSI and believe me, I have tried.  It is just much easier to look at the old steam gauge.  

[Bob_Belville]

I would not get rid of your vacuum system. The redundancy is free and the Aspens can fail/red X. Remember, many full certificated glass panels operate on the premise of a dual electric buss with two batteries. Unless you want to purchase the Aspen 2000 series evolution with the 1 hour battery back-up, this wouldn't be attainable. I have the 2000 system and would never get rid of the vacuum system. Your Mooney was designed with both electric and vacuum. Why mess up the design?

 

***Vacuum/static footnote- The VSI on the Aspen is terrible. In it's largest setting, you can barely read it. Keep your old VSI. In fact, just sub the Aspen for the HSI and AI and leave everything the same. You'll be glad you did.

 

I agree about the vacuum AI. The VSI is not great on the Aspen but it certainly is in the scan. But I don't think you can get rid of the AI with a single Aspen.

[Danb]

Todd you'd definitely get used to the new VSI

[John Pleisse]

 

 

I am sorry, you are absolutely correct. I'd mount the old AI out of primary view.....absolutely..

[Marauder]

I'm in the "it's fine" camp when it comes to the VSI on the Aspen. I don't spend a lot of energy looking at the VSI trend line, I just look at the absolute number being displayed. It is the number in the red circle.

Sorry for the crappy photo.

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[Marauder]

From Gary: Unless you want to purchase the Aspen 2000 series evolution with the 1 hour battery back-up, this wouldn't be attainable. From Bob: But I don't think you can get rid of the AI with a single Aspen.

With an Aspen 2000 equipped with the extended battery pack, you can legally remove the airspeed and altimeter gauges. The AI needs to stay regardless of what battery pack you have. I don't remember the specifics if the AI needs to be powered by a separate source for the Aspen STC. But as others said above, a vacuum AI is cheap insurance and generally proven technology. If you do go the Aspen 2000 route, you will have AI redundancy. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[wishboneash]

The analog VSI is a beautiful instrument and shows trends very nicely especially in stable flight with regards to altitude. I would never get rid of it!

[Bob_Belville]

The analog VSI is a beautiful instrument and shows trends very nicely especially in stable flight with regards to altitude. I would never get rid of it!

I miss it just a little but what would you remove to retain it in my panel? It would be of little use over on the right side...

[ArtVandelay]

For the Aspen owners, is GPSS actually built in, or is that an optional box or option?

Also, there appears several airspeeds on the display, is one TAS, one IAS? The one in upper left shows in the one pix when the motor is off?

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[Bob_Belville]

I now have 110 hours flying behind my Aspen and seldom look at the steam ASI which was not true at first. I think the VSI is less important than the ASI. I also looked at the old altimeter more at first and now I find the tight scan enabled by the Aspen is pretty sweet for landing and take off. (During cruise, the EDM930 and the GTN750 are the most interesting pieces of glass. My passengers like the DC headsets with XM channel 67 Real Jazz coming through the 696. To each his own.)  

[Bob_Belville]

For the Aspen owners, is GPSS actually built in, or is that an optional box or option?

Also, there appears several airspeeds on the display, is one TAS, one IAS? The one in upper left shows in the one pix when the motor is off?

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I believe GPSS is a direct connect from the GTN750. With the STEC50 in HDG mode, the GPSS button on the Aspen engages GPSS. When ATC gives you a hdg to fly you simply disengage GPSS. If they take you some distance off your route the 750 allows easy 2 clicks to go direct to next wp.

 

The speed in the upper left corner is simply an adjustable reminder. I leave 65k there as reference for over the threshold. there also a set-able altitude alert in the upper right corner, handy when climbing or descending ifr with a clearance. In the middle the Aspen displays TAS, GS, & wind direction and speed. Also very cool.  

[Marauder]

For the Aspen owners, is GPSS actually built in, or is that an optional box or option? Also, there appears several airspeeds on the display, is one TAS, one IAS? The one in upper left shows in the one pix when the motor is off? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

GPSS is built into the PFD. If you purchase a second MFD 1000, you will have a second AHRS and fully redundancy. When I had mine installed, I had them place a switch to allow my MFD to control the AP during reversion. The GPSS, as Bob points out, is something to behold. It gave my AP a whole new meaning to life. It really is impressive how you can fly a procedure turn as an overlay to a VOR or ILS and then simply switch over to the VOR or ILS approach. As for the speeds, the top one is programmable by the pilot. I set mine for 110 KIAS climb and 100 KIAS for an approach. As speed reminders, there is a chime that will ring. The two on the left are TAS and ground speed. In the center you have OAT. On the right side, you have winds aloft: Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ArtVandelay]

Ok Marauder, let me see if I have this right,

Your MFD has its own GPS, and I assume GPSS, so it can drive the AP, and the PFD uses an external GPS + it's own GPSS to also drive the AP

This provides redundancy assuming the fancy switch don't break and take out both?!

Did the MFD GPS require it's own antenna?

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[Marauder]

The standard Aspen 2000 comes with a PFD and an MFD 1000. You can buy an Aspen 1500. The MFD in this case is just a moving map, no AHRS. The PFD comes with an emergency GPS. When your flight plan data is ported over from the panel GPS (430/530/650 or 750), the Aspen retains the flight plan. If the panel GPS dies (like mine did a week ago), the PFD activates the emergency GPS and will continue to display your flight plan. What you can't do is change it. If for some reason your PFD fails and you have a MFD 1000, you can port over all of the PFD data including the panel mounted GPS flight plan. This is called reversion. In reversion, all of the PFD set points are moved over and your MFD changes from a moving map to a fully functional PFD (something the Garmin G500 doesn't do). And yes, the GPSS is also included with the MFD. In reversion, the MFD now acting as a PFD can do everything the PFD can do (you have access to the HSI, can pick any Nav source, see speeds, altimeter, basically everything the PFD does). In my case, I had the AP control switch installed so that I can move all AP over to the MFD acting as a PFD. If that fancy switch breaks, the default Aspen control for the AP is wings level. Your altitude hold will continue to function as before. The standard MFD 1000 does not come with a second GPS. You need to buy that option. It does however share the emergency antennae and GPS with the PFD. The Aspen 2000 comes with two AHRS, 1 emergency GPS and two OAT sensors. If you have redundancy mindset, you can opt for the second GPS like I did. Here is what the antennae look like: Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ToddDPT]

Todd you'd definitely get used to the new VSI

 

Danb...thanks for correcting the typo for me...now back to the topic.