OR75 Posted January 11, 2016 Report Posted January 11, 2016 Not an easy task to completely remove the vacuum system. Particularly if you have an autopilot (and most Mooneys do) no matter how you approach it. And when you add the cost of an electric DG and an electric AI ... you end up with a higher cost than an Aspen. And I do not see value for me in the Aspen. I am not saying it is not a good looking unit because it is, I am only saying that I am not ready to spend that kind of money as I would feel vulnerable going that route. My wish list for next Xmas is: - the SAI-340 with AP output - a basic electric DG with A/P output (heading bug) (so the lower half part of the Aspen without all the fancy features - not because they are not nice, but because I don't value them)
jetdriven Posted January 11, 2016 Report Posted January 11, 2016 An electric AI and electric DG doesn't come close to the 12k an aspen costs installed. For a nice lower half of an aspen alternative, look at a used Sandel HSI.
Marauder Posted January 11, 2016 Report Posted January 11, 2016 Not an easy task to completely remove the vacuum system. Particularly if you have an autopilot (and most Mooneys do) no matter how you approach it. And when you add the cost of an electric DG and an electric AI ... you end up with a higher cost than an Aspen. And I do not see value for me in the Aspen. I am not saying it is not a good looking unit because it is, I am only saying that I am not ready to spend that kind of money as I would feel vulnerable going that route. My wish list for next Xmas is: - the SAI-340 with AP output - a basic electric DG with A/P output (heading bug) (so the lower half part of the Aspen without all the fancy features - not because they are not nice, but because I don't value them) An electric AI and electric DG doesn't come close to the 12k an aspen costs installed. For a nice lower half of an aspen alternative, look at a used Sandel HSI. The good news is that there are now more options available than the days of "Bendix King" or "Bendix King". I think every owner needs to assess their needs and to some degree their wants. That coupled with your budget will dictate what direction you should be looking in. For me, I had no HSI (nothing to display the output for my soon to be installed GTN 650), no GPSS module, nothing to display my flight director and certainly no redundancy of the steam other than my partial panel training. The important part is find a solution that works for your flying. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
mike_elliott Posted January 11, 2016 Report Posted January 11, 2016 An electric AI and electric DG doesn't come close to the 12k an aspen costs installed. For a nice lower half of an aspen alternative, look at a used Sandel HSI. If one does this, please note if the Sandel doesn't have the latest software, it is not waas compatible and that update is $1700 alone. We yanked one out of the Bravo to put in an Aspen, sold the Sandel for 3300 on barnstormers after upgrading the 430 to WAAS and finding out that the Sandel folks wanted to be fed 1700 to work with it also.
OR75 Posted January 11, 2016 Report Posted January 11, 2016 An electric AI and electric DG doesn't come close to the 12k an aspen costs installed. For a nice lower half of an aspen alternative, look at a used Sandel HSI. Probably can find a Sandel 3308 for about 3k But between the weight of the unit ~4lbs and having to change the bulb every 2 years or so .... I might as well keep my low tech DG and vacuum system and replace the vac pump every 2 years ! ... I can save weigh by getting rid of one indicator (the GI-106A in my case) but then you have to add another 2k or 3k to have a Garmin WAAS compatible Sandel 3308 2
kevinw Posted January 11, 2016 Report Posted January 11, 2016 I dropped off my J at the avionics shop this morning. I already have an Aspen PFD and opted for the EA100 digital to analog autopilot converter when it was installed. The EA100 allows my autopilot to get its input from the Aspen versus the old attitude indicator I kept as backup. So now I'm having the vacuum system and standy vacuum completely removed. The backup AI is being replaced with the Sandia Quattro 340. While it's in the shop and torn apart I'm replacing my EDM700 with an 830. The 700 was on the fritz and JPI has an inexpensive upgrade path. Not sure how soon I'll get it back; the weather here in Iowa has screwed up the installer's schedule. Hopefully 10 days or so is all. I'll let you guys know how it turns out. 1
Guest Mike261 Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 Not an easy task to completely remove the vacuum system. Particularly if you have an autopilot (and most Mooneys do) no matter how you approach it. And when you add the cost of an electric DG and an electric AI ... you end up with a higher cost than an Aspen. And I do not see value for me in the Aspen. I am not saying it is not a good looking unit because it is, I am only saying that I am not ready to spend that kind of money as I would feel vulnerable going that route. My wish list for next Xmas is: - the SAI-340 with AP output - a basic electric DG with A/P output (heading bug) (so the lower half part of the Aspen without all the fancy features - not because they are not nice, but because I don't value them) Not always...the only vacuum instrument from the factory in my 98 J is the artificial horizon. all that plumbing and a backup pump for the one instrument. mike
gsengle Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 I'm surprised the new king KI300 hasn't been discussed in this thread in this context - direct electric replacement for those of us with King autopilots... http://www.bendixking.com/V4/KI-300 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
OR75 Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 I'm surprised the new king KI300 hasn't been discussed in this thread in this context - direct electric replacement for those of us with King autopilots... http://www.bendixking.com/V4/KI-300 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Because at 6k with autopilot output , it is out of the money vs. an Aspen
gsengle Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 Except that it's certified and you don't have to retain the vacuum based backup, keep it overhauled, keep the pumps keep the weight etc etc. Thought this thread was about dumping the vacuum system and the aspen gets you no closer to that... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
carusoam Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 Conundrum... The fine Swiss watch with a Timex movement - Dr. Garmin? Can you convince Dr. Garmin to select a BK device over a Big G device? I need my existing stuff to just keep working... Best regards, -a-
jetdriven Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 If one does this, please note if the Sandel doesn't have the latest software, it is not waas compatible and that update is $1700 alone. We yanked one out of the Bravo to put in an Aspen, sold the Sandel for 3300 on barnstormers after upgrading the 430 to WAAS and finding out that the Sandel folks wanted to be fed 1700 to work with it also. WOW !
Guest Mike261 Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 I'm surprised the new king KI300 hasn't been discussed in this thread in this context - direct electric replacement for those of us with King autopilots... http://www.bendixking.com/V4/KI-300 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk its been discussed on another thread...Ive got a failing BK AI coupled to a KAP 150. so I'm waiting for the KI 300. it was supposed to be available Q4 2015...but its still vapor ware. I will be first in line...bye bye vac pump, vac pump maintenance, hoses, back up electric pump, wiring switches, lights warnings...all of it seeya. i don't care for the aspen displays, just my preference. I like the AI its what I'm accustomed to. I also like that its just a stick it in there deal...i already had the breaker installed when i did my EDM 900. I'm looking at close to three grand to repair the KI256 in there now, and a vac pump soon, and recurring vac system maintenance. Even if the street price is 5995.00 Im all in. Mike
mike_elliott Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 its been discussed on another thread...Ive got a failing BK AI coupled to a KAP 150. so I'm waiting for the KI 300. it was supposed to be available Q4 2015...but its still vapor ware. I will be first in line...bye bye vac pump, vac pump maintenance, hoses, back up electric pump, wiring switches, lights warnings...all of it seeya. i don't care for the aspen displays, just my preference. I like the AI its what I'm accustomed to. I also like that its just a stick it in there deal...i already had the breaker installed when i did my EDM 900. I'm looking at close to three grand to repair the KI256 in there now, and a vac pump soon, and recurring vac system maintenance. Even if the street price is 5995.00 Im all in. Mike That has to be painful to be basically AOG waiting for vaporware. I hope BK eventually makes this a reality for you soon for you Mike. There must be some real hurdles for them to overcome to push it out again. Maybe someone is on this list from BK that could expound
jetdriven Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) Try a used king AI from eBay until the KI-300 comes out. Probably 1500$? Maybe 2 grand but you get it back when u sell it. Edited January 12, 2016 by jetdriven 1
Guest Mike261 Posted January 13, 2016 Report Posted January 13, 2016 That has to be painful to be basically AOG waiting for vaporware. I hope BK eventually makes this a reality for you soon for you Mike. There must be some real hurdles for them to overcome to push it out again. Maybe someone is on this list from BK that could expound Mike... Not so much, but will be painful when the weather clears. Not a lot of opportunity to make the IFR trips I want to from up here in bucolic New Hampshire once the icing levels come down. Never mind the slippery ramp, and the twelve foot snow drifts in front of the hangar door I experienced last year, and the preheating, and I just hate the cold dammit. My AI is still functioning but i can hear the trouble coming and don't trust it. So VFR only. This is one big advantage to owning your own plane, I've heard what sounds to me like bearings starting to complain, and one might not pick up on that if you were jumping from rental to rental. If the KI-300 remains vapor ware as long as the KSN770 did, ill have to bite the bullet and get it attended to in the spring. Must. Have. Patience... I'm told February... Mike
Guest Mike261 Posted January 13, 2016 Report Posted January 13, 2016 Some news from a BK insider would be helpful tho... anyone? Bueller ? Bueller?
flyboy0681 Posted January 13, 2016 Report Posted January 13, 2016 Some news from a BK insider would be helpful tho... anyone? Bueller ? Bueller? He's sick
Guest Mike261 Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 Ok... so i feared this would be the case. No electronic attitude indicator from BK. The KI 300 is still vapor ware and is now dead to me. its now february. My KI 256 is virtually Tits up. Need to send this thing out for a rebuild. need some pireps. any out there? price and staisfaction level? mike
carusoam Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 Search for Bob Bramble on this website. If you like good service and low price...? Then start looking up the Aspen solution that meets your requirements. Compare the two... Best regards, -a-
flyboy0681 Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 2 hours ago, Mike261 said: Ok... so i feared this would be the case. No electronic attitude indicator from BK. The KI 300 is still vapor ware and is now dead to me. its now february. My KI 256 is virtually Tits up. Need to send this thing out for a rebuild. need some pireps. any out there? price and staisfaction level? mike Our KI 525A and gyro are in the hands of Bob Bramble at this very moment. He's overhauling the HSI and gyro for $2,100. Not chump change, but easier to digest when divided among several partners.
mike_elliott Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 2 hours ago, Mike261 said: Ok... so i feared this would be the case. No electronic attitude indicator from BK. The KI 300 is still vapor ware and is now dead to me. its now february. My KI 256 is virtually Tits up. Need to send this thing out for a rebuild. need some pireps. any out there? price and staisfaction level? mike Bob Bramble is the go to guy on these. He will need the AP computer also to align the 2. Expect to spend about 2400 or so for the repair and alignment. Get ready to do it again in 500 hours. BK might have the KI300 available then.
Guest Mike261 Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 15 minutes ago, mike_elliott said: Bob Bramble is the go to guy on these. He will need the AP computer also to align the 2. Expect to spend about 2400 or so for the repair and alignment. Get ready to do it again in 500 hours. BK might have the KI300 available then. Who knows...fool me twice shame on me. The thing is, i don't want an aspen. or a g this or that. most everything displayed on the aspen is available on a tablet. the glideslope is moved up to the attitude indicator...everything is so busy and crowded. two instruments share the same screen, lose screen lose both. need pitot and static source so I have to add electric AI to get rid of vacuum system. looks like i will be getting aquainted with Bob Bramble thanks mike
carusoam Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 The Aspen include's the air data that is not on the iPad. It is also configurable to tone down the information if you didn't want it. Marauder (today) posted a video of an Aspen in flight. The one instrument is like scanning an entire instrument panel without moving your head... The darn thing even tells you what mode the AP is in while on the approach...has altitude reminders and GPSS. And does all the iPad things as well... The Aspen price is close enough to make it worth comparing against. Chunks of AMUs either way... A couple of mechanical overhauls vs. few electronic glitches... Bramble is a reputable way to go if you just want the same thing to just work for the next 500 or more hours... I expect that I will be visiting Bob Bramble before going Aspen one day.... Best regards, -a- 1
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