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Showing results for 'IO-390'.
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So are most RVs. An RV-14 does something like 165 kts with the same IO-390 that can go in a J model, i.e., 9-10 gals/hr.
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WTB. McCauley 2 blade propeller for M20J
mhrivnak replied to guyjill's topic in Avionics / Parts Classifieds
Just an idea: if you switch to the Hartzell Top Prop, that gives you the option to later put in an IO-390 whenever your engine is due for overhaul. It also would get rid of the RPM caution range. The downside is that their lead time is about 12 weeks (I asked at their Sun n Fun booth the other day). But maybe there's a similar delay for McCauley. -
I think you need to verify these restrictions. The only full-power time restriction I've heard of in Mooneys is with an IO-390. If you have an IO-360 you should be able to run it at full power for more than 5 minutes. The Top Prop brochure says this about continuous operations: "Placard – “No cont. ops. Above 24” manifold pressure between 2350 to 2550 rpm” (M20E, M20F only)" https://hartzellprop.com/wp-content/uploads/Mooney-Combined-PrcSht-Order.pdf Which again allows you to remain at full power. The limitation should be documented in the STC paperwork. -
Here is what the Lycoming IO-390-A manual says about leaning during climb. "On engines with manual mixture control, maintain mixture control in “Full Rich” position for rated take-off, climb and maximum cruise powers (above approximately 75%). However, during take-off from high elevation airport or during climb, roughness or loss of power may result from over-richness. In such a case adjust mixture control only enough to obtain smooth operation - not for economy. Observe instruments for temperature rise. Rough operation due to over-rich fuel/air mixture is most likely to be encountered at altitudes above 5,000 feet. Always return the mixture to full rich before increasing power settings."
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14 C change is equal to 14*1.8 = 25 F change. Unfortunately, 25F is what I have been using for rich of peak based on my old M20F manual. Here is a notional temp plot from the general IO-390 manual. Looking at the plot, I've likely been peaking my cylinder head temperatures. :-( Hopefully, cruising above 8k has kept me out of trouble.
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I have a IO-390 in my 1976 M20F, and I just found the engine's manual at https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/IO-390-A Op %26 Install Manual 60297-34.pdf. When leaning, I have always used rich of peak by -14C. The engine manual recommends leaning to peak for economy when below 75% power. "Best Economy Cruise (approximately 75% power and below) – Operate at peak EGT". Anyone else run their IO-390 at peak?
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Installed in my Mooney M20J May 2012, removed November 2021 as part of panel upgrade. Used with IO-390 4-cylinder engine. Simple and useful; worked fine for me. - PROBES NOT INCLUDED but available here: https://www.jpinstruments.com/product-category/probes-sensors/. Assume apx. $850-1000 in sensors for 4-cylinder engine. - Wire harness remnants included, but you should assume you will need an installer to fabricate a new harness. Link to original equipment: https://www.jpinstruments.com/shop/edm-700/
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Thank you all for the lively discussions. My M20E with J motor cruises at 140kt at 6000 feet. This is the LOP at 2400 RPM. This number has been adjusted for altitude, temperature, and pressure. As someone has mentioned, my ASI could be off. I may go out and do a few triangle run and calculate the actual speed using GPS. Based on the 150kt mentioned here for E, I think I'm not too far off. After all, my E is pretty much stock and the motor probably started to show its age. I don't think it would be worth the money to overhaul the motor ($30k) to get the extra 10kt. Perhaps I will visit the "magic detailer" that my hanger neighbor keep telling me. Supposedly, the magic wax job will get me 3 extra knots for only $300. Far better return on investment if it's true. I recall at least one MSer took up Lycoming's offer and went with IO-390. I wonder if they would be willing to share their actual cruising speed.
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Four day weekends and crummy weather lead this Mooney pilot to lots of post searching and ideas! Other than the rocket Missile conversion, what are other modern ways to make my 201 faster? my searches have yielded the following: - io-390 conversion, seems to yield maybe 5% higher cruise speed (vs 155 knots) - lo presti cowling, 5-7 mph increase - modern/ new paint/ wax coat -could the cowling be paired with the 390 and double up on speed increases for a truly ~170 knot/ 200mph cruiser? Any other ideas or examples ?
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Lycoming accepts the A3B6D as a core for the A3B6 as well as for the IO-390-A3A6 converting from the A3B6D to the A3B6 or to the IO-390-A3A6 is the same process ( governor ratio, brackets, hoses …) . The accessories panel is the same but I guess it has to be a factory overhaul -
@carusoam, Thanks! My weapon of choice would be to burn this one and get a jet but I am invested so I like tinkering and I can't leave it alone. I might just build me an IO-390. It could be fun. The oil leak I have appears to be coming from the back accessory case. I didn't add dye yet, but I did hit it with UV light and it seems to be streaming from the corners. The other leak looks like where the Prop governor mates too the case. I have to decide how much I want to deal with this engine. It runs good and the numbers are fair on compression, however it has two mismatched cylinders and I didn't do the work so I am constantly thinking about it.
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I’d be interested in what a factory reman IO-390 is in comparison.
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For what it is worth, here is my thinking. An IO-390 is worth it if you have the following conditions: RPM limitations on a non-counterbalanced motor (E & F) If you have a mid body (F & G) If you already have a top prop If you are replaced a single mag drive motor (J) When I am due for a engine which I hope wont be for a long time I am seriously considering an IO-390 for my E, I have the top prop, I have pretty severe RPM limitations, and I have a J cowl which I plan to put on. The other option is to rebuild my A1A as a counter balanced motor, but when you look at the cost, its about equal to a new 390.
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If only I could use my MT prop on an IO-390 I would seriously consider it when I change the engine. MT said it will work fine but there is that paperwork thing...
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lots of misconception because of how the STC was launched : IO-390 WAS initially more expensive (today, same as IO-360-A3B6 and less than the IO-360-A3B6D) Cylinder WERE initially more expensive When launched, Lycoming was requiring to go through a Lycoming Service Center (not any more required) The Hartzell top prop IS required and that adds a significant cost Other considerations: the Top Prop is ~ 10lbs heavier (consider a SkyTek lightweight starter to make it a wash) The IO-390 accessory panel is the same as the IO-360-A3B6 (so different than the IO-360-A3B6D) , so you will be a few brackets and fluid hoses
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He was quoting these guys stc, not performance data from an io-390 Mooney… I actually haven’t heard or seen quoted data from a -390. https://firewallforwardengines.com/stc/
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But haven't people who switched to the IO-390 in the M20J said they didn't notice any difference?
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Artvandalay Based on your comments….I like the idea of moving forward with IO-390. We do intend this to be our forever plane. My wife and I have flown many aircraft…. Nothing like a MOONEY……………….. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Not the same as a Mooney but I was in a RV7 with a IO-390 and It climbed and flew like a bat out of hell compare to the RV7 With a IO-360 I was in prior.
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The IO-390 is pretty popular in the experimental community with many RV-14 builders using them. My understanding is that part costs, including cylinders, is now comparable to the IO-360. It looks to me like the tide is turning to perhaps favor the IO-390, but that's just my observation. I think if/when my engine needs removal it'll be a seriously considered option.
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How many responses would you like? They are expensive… They are great… They have roller cam followers… They don’t produce a stunning amount of extra power… Was there anything in particular you wanted to know? Best regards, -a- https://mooneyspace.com/search/?q=IO-390&quick=1
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Ruminating…. Replacing IO -360 with now certified IO-390 Possible new prop Anyone with experience Benefits/Downside Cost out of the equation [emoji41] Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Please make sure the new owner is contractually obligated to continue providing IO-390/prop updates!
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Momentary slight loss of rpm/power in cruise
ZuluZulu replied to bmcconnaha's topic in Modern Mooney Discussion
Please definitely keep the IO-390 updates coming. I've only got 400 hours on my A3B6D but I'm already thinking about replacing it with a 390 once the time comes. What prop do you have? -
Wouldn't an experimental Mooney kit be great? Features: Factory assembled wing Factory assembled steel tubular frame Fixed gear, which reduces insurance, simplifies design and increases UL. IO-360 or optional IO-390 to overcome the drag associated with fixed landing gear J-model cowl and fuselage What would one of those cost?
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