LANCECASPER

Usually the fuel system is sent out on an overhaul. I doubt that it was done on a bargain basement "overhaul" at Jewell. The fuel system may have been looked at and adjusted by Maxwell and a few months and roughly 30 hours later by Dugosh but it still may not have been right after a few hours of flight if there were components that needed to be replaced. It sounds like he took his transition training after the work done at the pre-buy by Dugosh so it was running right for awhile. Also it was flown safely from Longview back home and then a few months later down to Kestrel to be sold, and was flown safely from Kestrel to Kerrville.

i'm not so sure I'd put it on there permanently. What if something bumps it and pushes up just a little on the quick drain? I wouldn't want my oil draining without me knowing about it. I'm guessing that's why Continental or Lycoming doesn't have something like that. @jlunseth had something else happen with his quick drain once over one of the Great Lakes where he lost all of his oil on his 231. What makes the mess on an oil change isn't putting the hose on the quick drain with a little twist-tie of safety wire, it's getting the oil filter off without oil all over the place.

Combine a slightly low fuel flow with a lean in the climb and I could see this happening. The report does list one of the causes as 'incorrect use/operation". It would be interesting to see the logs pages of what he had Dugosh do after the pre-buy. We said it on the first thread about this accident, but it's worth repeating - he was able to walk away from it and that took skill on his part to get it down under horrible circumstances. He did not stop flying it until the airplane stopped. Under all of that stress he did not stall it or put it into a stall/spin. I would hope that if I was dealt the same hand that I would be able to do the same.

If that interior was done today with the covered side-panels and headliner, wool carpeting, leather seats, leather control yokes, with removing everything and install labor you'd have a hard time getting it done at any really good shop for less than $17,000, maybe more. If I was looking for a J even though the interior is 17 years old I'd add at least $8000 value for that due to the materials and workmanship that was used. They probably only paid $8,000-$10,000 for it 17 years ago. They got to enjoy it all of this time and you get a good portion of what they invested back. A nice neat well kept airplane like this speaks "pride of ownership" loudly and almost always tells you much about how the rest of the airplane was maintained. I also like the attention to detail on the instrument panel. Every color on the panel matches - it's all black - there aren't six different shades of tan or gray with black blanking covers. Even the routing of the usb-c on the audio panel down to the usb-a jack down by the pilot's right leg is neatly done.

Hawk over at Zephyr Hills has a good reputation on here. At 81nm it's not exactly next door to Daytona Beach, but people bring their airplanes there from much further to have them painted. https://hawkaircraft.com/

I was about 2/3 of the way through my PPL back in 1985 when I wanted to go to Iowa to look at a C-172 to buy. My instructor and I rented a C-172RG with a KNS80 to fly down there from North Dakota. I was lost while he was putting in waypoints, but by the time we got back I had it figured out. I'll always remember how he described it: "Slicker than snot on a doorknob" . . lol.

A few months ago when the tornado hit Omaha there was a hangared Bravo with a total loss. BAS sold the engine very soon after they purchased the salvage. Just a couple of weeks ago on Houston Craigslist there was a TIO-540-AF1B for sale. Wentworth Aircraft up in Minneapolis had a TIO-540-AF1B sitting on their site a long time a few years back and finally sold it. The point is that engines do come up from time to time that could be sent off for overhaul. Of course the best part about a factory engine is that if you plan ahead there's hardly any down time. Once it arrives your shop pulls your engine and puts on the "new" engine and sends back yours as a core. You also get all of the running improvements on the engine (roller tappets, etc). At the price of a "new" engine now it drives down the price of a Bravo with a high time engine. For years on Vref the engine time on this engine was valued at around $30 an hour ($30 x 2000 = $60,000). Now you would have to value it at about $55 per hour. Buyers and Sellers will have to get used to that. If the Bravo in question on this thread had a mid-time engine (1000 SMOH) it would mostly likely be priced about $40,000 more.

It had been mentioned in this thread and on the report that the engine broke the #6 piston presumably due to detonation. Dugosh found during the pre-buy that the "Fuel System needs to be set up per TCM STD 97-3E". Many times on Continentals the fuel flow is not set up to provide enough fuel during the climb and the cylinders get very hot. It's hard to say on this one, it could have been the low fuel set-up, combined with a pilot leaning during climb, which he might have been used to doing on a normally aspirated engine. Not good to do on a turbo engine. His low time with the airplane and possible mismanaging the engine may have been the ultimate cause. Or the engine just came apart at that point due to no one else's fault. The cylinder coming apart was what they found, but the reason for that are just hypotheses now. We would all like to trace it back to the exact cause, but it doesn't look so simple on this one. If theres anything to learn from it I'd like to know.

You'll want to quote the seller's post or ping him so he's notified, otherwise it's doubtful he will check this older ad.

This is a very low sales volume engine. Mooney was the only one to use the engine and they made 350 Bravos. How many remain flying? Probably between 310-320? Since they don't have any of these engines sitting on the shelf, that means the orders for all other engine models which are already in-line are that far backlogged. It causes one to want to plan ahead and not wait until you "need" an engine. - - - Regarding pricing, one of the closest engines to this is the TIO-540-AG1A, an even lower sales volume engine, which was only used in the Commander 114TC and 115TC. A new one is $167,666, rebuilt is $110,497 and overhauled is $100,210. It does not have the oil cooled valve guides, but other than the cylinders a very similar engine. These are also backordered. A different engine, but the twin turbo Lycoming 540 thats used in the Piper Mirage, now M350 (TIO-540-AE2A), new is $229,241, rebuilt is $155,572, overhauled is $143,473. These are also backordered. It looks like Textron, who owns Lycoming, decided that people will pay this amount for engines to keep their airplanes flying. With a two year wait it looks like they are right, at least for now. That wait time is just a projection though. I have heard of people getting Lycoming engines sooner than what they were originally told.

The stock instruments were pretty sparse. In the one I had the factory installed JPI was over on the right. (I had the yaw damper circled for another reason on the picture) Questions run through my mind after this: I’m also curious why the spark plugs worn beyond limits wasn’t listed as an A/W item. Also - whether the seller was willing to pay or not who takes off in a new-to-you airplane across the country with worn out spark plugs? Also in looking at the flight path after a rough engine did he did he turn around to go back to Kestrel or Kerrville and then decide at the last minute to land at Lakeway? Nearest button on the GPS is there for a good reason. Was he in a hurry to get the airplane back home and not have Dugosh set up the fuel system like it should have been (according to pre-buy)? Or some of the other discrepancies as well. Even though the airplane sat for a week in Kerrville on pre-buy, negotiations sometimes go back and forth and it doesn’t always mean that the shop has the time (or the parts) to do everything right away. The turbo was high time and leaking oil and very doubtful it was replaced in that amount of time in Kerrville. I’ve always thought that a major overhaul included overhauling all of the components on the engine and the accessories.

If there is a bright spot since that one has a first run engine, Lycoming had a longstanding policy of giving you a rebuilt at the overhaul price in exchange for your engine if it was first run. Whether they still do that or not I’m not sure. Also since it has the newer crank and centrilube cam 1400 hours ago you should easily get another 600 hours before thinking about major overhaul.

But what does that have to do with us?

I would be much more suspect of the Jewell engine overhaul than any of the rest of it. Dugosh’s pre-buy notes show a missing bolt found in the engine?? How was the major overhaul done without replacing the turbo??? I wonder how many of the discrepancies on the pre-buy were fixed.

And maybe another option - won’t replace a perfectly good no-back spring for an unproven one. Don Maxwell says listen to yours on a retract test and if it’s not noisy, leave it alone. They will “chatter” a long time before they fail.

Yes it is

Have you tried a Mooney Service Center? If they're in stock Mooney can drop-ship it to you. Or BAS has some switches that you could possibly re-label https://baspartsales.com/search-results-page?q=930023 Especially this one: https://baspartsales.com/930023-111-mooney-m20j-eta-fuel-boost-pump-rocker-switch/

It has the newer Eaton landing gear actuator, which is a good thing. The Plessey was only on early production of the M20M.

I've never done this but I think this might be what you're looking for: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4340751

If that's the airplane I think it is you'll never find a Bravo with that same equipment . . . ever. The only math I would do on this one is factor in a new engine in a 300-500 hours and at what price would it still make sense if this is going to be a "forever" airplane. Once you factor that in, how would it compare to a similarly equipped Acclaim, which you're very familiar with? If you buy it I'd make sure it has fine wire Tempest plugs, especially on this engine. I'm not a fan of the Slick Mags on this engine, but up until SureFly it was the only option (don't even think about the ElectroAir). Take the advice to do the SureFly on the left mag (but keep the old one to send in with the core when that day comes). I would only use one shop to overhaul the other mag (Robert at Aero Accessories in Van Nuys). On this late of a Bravo I'm not sure if they still used the mickey mouse trickle charge circuits with inline slo-blo fuses (later Mooneys have circuit breakers in the back on these circuits). If it still has the inline fuses, those are the first thing I would check. It wouldn't surprise me if they are both blown, so they aren't trickle charging. They get missed all of the time. These circuits are explained here: https://www.mooney.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/SBM20-275.pdf) If they haven't been using a Battery Minder or they've been buying Gills I could see batteries every couple years. A good pressurized/soapy water exhaust check should show any leaks. The left side is where the tail pipe is and if it hasn't had any work I'd be very surprised - maybe just wasn't logged correctly. Look especially close at the "Y" weld in the tailpipe. I believe that having a lot of owners and a lot of mechanics is what has led to the weirdness you're seeing in the logs. (Also, the folks who put the first 300 hours on this particular airplane wouldn't have really cared how they flew it, so that may have been part of it as well.) All of these engine abnormalities will go away when you change out the engine in a few hundred hours and since it will be you flying it you can track the maintenance a lot better than what has been done in the past. New owners can cook this engine in 100 hours if they don't know what they are doing. With that many people who have flown this, it surprised me that it hasn't had a major yet. Again if it's the one I'm thinking of, having had Top Gun do the last annual is a major plus. There are one of the few shops that has seen the TIO-540-AF1A and B engines right from the start and know what to look for.

support@mooney.com goes right to Frank.

It was misleading and thankfully they have changed it in the Ultra POH. If they had the resources they should go back and make POH revisions to correct it for the rest of us.

The salvage market is really the best way financially to justify keeping an older airframe flying. Buying a new part at new parts pricing is not going to happen for most owners of 50-60 year old airframes. Even on a 16 year old airframe like I have I would prefer to source an airworthy used part if needed. Textron doesn't have any of these bell cranks in stock for a Beechcraft, but the price is $1481.36. Most owners would be better off sourcing a good used part. But yes there are structural parts that we need from Mooney at times. The important thing is that you're still flying (https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/VHWBH/history). That's what we're all trying to help either other do.

Thankfully they finally cleared it up in the POH for the Acclaim Ultra and Ovation Ultra: “Wing Flaps (below 110 KIAS in all extended positions)”

I'm quoting from the Service Bulletin and providing you proof of when parts were available and that they supported owners during this by providing engineering and manufacturing parts and you're telling me that's not how it works? If my quotes or proof is wrong then please correct me with facts. How long was your airplane down for this Service Bulletin? Are you saying that they should have ignored what is in the pictures in the Service Bulletin? They had a legal obligation to the FAA and a moral obligation to the owners to at least have their airplanes inspected. If out of an abundance of caution the FAA went further that was their call. This thread has been about people feeling that the factory isn't doing enough, now you're saying they are doing too much by issuing this Service Bulletin back in December 2022?