A64Pilot

I see all of the time, “I run LOP and save 30% on fuel” Well that’s not really the case, what is, is “I run LOP and slow down and save 30% on fuel” Most of that fuel saving is in slowing down, to quantify the difference if people are interested they need to remove all the variables except the LOP part, which means of course keeping speed and RPM the same. Years ago I did it in my Maule, and the difference was small enough that I just didn’t bother with LOP anymore, but that was a draggy airframe, and the 540 even with Gami’s and a small as in less than a half gallon spread just didn’t run well LOP, it lost power like you wouldn’t believe, but it was a parallel valve motor too, so maybe that was it? LOP “worked” in the C-210 though, go figure, but it wasn’t 30% either or even close, but as the 210 wasn’t mine and I didn’t pay for fuel, I always cruised it at 25 squared or usually wide open 2500 RPM and ROP for the best speed I could get which was usually 155 kts on average, it was flown for business and time is money, plus if I went fast maybe I wasn’t so late getting home that day. Continental’s are in my opinion more “hot rods” than Lycoming, just listen to an IO-520 idle, it sounds like a drag racer, that’s the radical cam, where a typical Lycoming idles smooth, it doesn’t lope. So I believe you made TBO where most don’t not so much due to LOP, but because you ran low power so much, and most don’t. Its been known for 100 years or more that an engine run at lower power will last longer, within limits of course, but there are so many that believe especially for Diesels that the way to long life is to run them hard, and you can show them all kinds of proof that isn’t true but they choose not to believe it.

If it’s the airspeed switch, the moment you push the red button the gear will start coming up, and if you release it they should stop? Not sure about the stop part, but it seems logical if the system works as I think it does. ‘If it’s the relay, then pressing the red button won’t do anything, because the purpose of the red button is to bypass the A/S safety switch? I’m having the same problem, except mine is gear coming down, sometimes there is a delay in coming down, and once or twice that delay was several seconds and I recycled the switch and they came down. ‘According to LAZAR the relays aren’t available, there are two numbers of relays, the second can be had from junk yards at a crazy price for a junk part, and I found one new one for $800, there is also a retrofit kit in the parts manual that I think converts the original relays to the $800 one. ‘I pulled my belly panel yesterday and I have the old style, original I believe. Anyway that part number crosses fo readily available relays used on winches and apparently golf carts, it’s a continuous duty 100 amp relay, the landing gear actuator says 80 amps on it and 2000 lbs limit. I think without looking that the gear CB is 30 amps, so I assume the actuator is seriously derated if it’s has a CB that a little more than a 1/3 of the amps it can pull. So with 30 amps being the theoretical limit, I also believe a continuous duty 100 amp solenoid is also serious overkill. ‘OK long story, but I guess I’m talking myself into that a new non aircraft, but identical solenoid is a better choice than an aircraft solenoid bought from a junkyard that doesn’t have an 8130, and how do you determine it’s airworthiness? So if you determine it’s the relay, then you may be in the same boat On edit talking to others, it’s not been the gear switch, something else thst LASAR says they don’t have and Mooney says special order, 5 week wait. ‘Apparently LASAR used to sell a switch for less than a third of what the one with the wheel cost, you just had to put the wheel on it,but it’s no longer available. I’m a new Mooney owner, but with this parts situation, I’m starting to wish I had bought an older Bonanza, they seem to have parts availability

The only thing that’s magic about percent power is knowing at what percent power your safe and staying below that, beyond that it’s meaningless. ‘Just as knowing your 20 degrees or 25 degrees LOP of your richest cylinder, or what your “Gami spread” is, they are all meaningless. ‘What is meaningful is are you below the point where you can hurt your motor or not, and is it running smoothly? My IO-360 runs so much smoother with its stock system than either my IO-540 or IO-520 did with Gami injectors it’s shocking, the IO-360 seems to be the poster child for LOP. ‘But try something for kicks, run a medium airspeed, the one you usually run LOP, then run it 50 ROP and adjust manifold pressure to achieve the identical airspeed, leave RPM the same, that’s how much fuel your actually saving LOP. Report back, it may not be as big a number as many seem to think.

It may help sell the airplane, but I do not think you’ll get your money back out of it, it’s run out, and most buyers will price an overhaul into what’s it’s worth, put new cylinders on it, and it’s still run out, at least the savvy ones will. ‘But now is crazy, I’ve seen crazy prices from brokers with run out motors, I doubt they are getting those prices, but with today’s market who knows? I’d throw it out there at the same price as most seem to be asking for a mid to high time motor and see what happens, you may be surprised especially if the airplane shows well.

If the needle moves without the engine running then it’s not the alternator or charging system, or I guess it could be, just unplug one of the spade connectors to the alternator field from the master and see if it makes any difference. I guess maybe the VR could be pulsing the field with the engine off? Flyboy, take the spade connectors loose and apply some Dow Corning DC4 grease, that will prevent any oxidization, or at least greatly slow it down, AKA silicone or “light bulb” grease.

I don’t think you’ll get a knowledgeable answer on total capacity, but I’d bet lunch it’s way under a quart. Still have two on hand and buy that silly insect sprayer that’s way overpriced at AC Spruce to make life easier. I’d disconnect the reservoir can and use a Ball Mason jar or similar, holds a lot and you can see when it’s getting full, never hurts to flush a lot of clean fluid through. ‘Sometimes though a pedal that just goes away isn’t air, it’s the O-ring or rings in the Master cylinder, especially if it comes and goes, air doesn’t usually come and go, it stays

My 81 J model has two gear relays of course, one up and one down. They are mounted in front of each other and are not marked that I can tell. ‘I need to replace the one that lowers the gear, which one is it, the one near the nose or the tail?

I start at 22 squared for LOP myself, because that’s close to 65% power and will vary some due to DA, but it’s a safe place I can get I think about 145 kts ROP at best power and I think that’s about 9.5 GPH, unsure because I don’t run there. 8 GPH is about peak and maybe 140 ish, kts 7 GPH is LOP and 135 kts, this is often where I cruise when I’m not in a hurry. 6 GPH is real LOP and about as LOP as she will run smoothly and is 120 kts, it’s my just out to cruise setting, but that’s 20 NMG, and that’s not shabby at all. ‘These are at lower altitudes, speed ought to get better up higher in thinner air

Oh, and on the LED’s it’s the power supply that’s noisy, the USCG has a Notam out warning boaters about cheap LED lights, they are so noisy they make it so you can’t use the radio. Beware the cheap Ebay LED’s etc. a quality LED will state or supply on request it’s EMI output. AIS is ADSB for boats

I have both an ICOM and the Sporty’s the ICOM is smaller and lighter, and the Sporty’s works better and costs less. ‘For awhile during test flights on new aircraft I would use the handheld with an external antenna, with the ICOM I had to call tower on the telephone, they could hear the Sporty’s For emergency comms, you might be better off with the telephone

Good Lord, how did you form the pan?

Any formula would be based upon the Brake Specific Fuel Consumption, which is a fancy way of saying how efficient an engine is, the BSFC will change some when LOP and will vary with how LOP you are. ‘If it didn’t then there would be no reason fuel consumption wise to run LOP. With mixture to some extent your swapping power production for efficiency, it’s not much, but it is real.

I’m saying that LOP doesn’t have to be complex, as I said my Father ran LOP in the 60’s, it wasn’t called LOP back then it was just called leaning it out. But the “new” ways have people believing that you have buy expensive equipment and resolve complex problems inflight, and y9u don’t. There is a KISS way to run LOP for those that don’t want to make a science project out of it.

I understand that 75% is 75%. However what chart do you use to determine 75% LOP? I’m not aware of one and anyone’s monitor that displays percent power is a rough estimation at best, and of course percent power is proportional to mixture, so an LOP chart would be tough to develop You can determine percent power LOP by first setting 75% at best power mixture, recording the airspeed, then going LOP and adjusting manifold pressure, (if possible) to achieve the same airspeed. Way too much trouble for me, I just want to save fuel sometimes when I’m not in a hurry. ‘I have if possible in parenthesis because it’s often not possible for a NA motor to achieve due to altitudes manifold pressure restrictions if you stay lean enough to be safe But why bother? Plus your pushing the limit, and that can be costly. The procedure I spelled out is for those who want KISS, and a way to safely run LOP without expensive instrumentation and without any mods to the engine. ‘Even though many will tell you that you need an analyzer to run LOP you really don’t, you do if you want to push the limit, but if you stay well away from it you don’t.

Are you interested in selling? I’ll send a PM

Define optimal. I agree with you that it will most often put one so lean the power just “goes away” and that’s regardless of timing advance too. Timing doesn’t make a whole lot of difference, some but it’s not 10 kts difference. So to keep us safe, just don’t lean aggressively until your at a HP output that you can’t hurt anything with mixture, I believe Lycoming puts that point at 75%, but as I’m risk adverse I use 65%. Those numbers are derived from best power mixture which is what the charts show, I think. Not actual power when leaned, much of the fuel savings from LOP comes simply from reduced power, more than you might think, but who cares where it came from, so long as it shows up. Now it’s not for people that are in a hurry, and some will say that slowing down just is not what they bought a Mooney for, and that’s fine, for those that want to cruise at high power, just go ROP, the cost isn’t as high as you may think, especially when you reduce the high fuel consumption by the reduced time aloft and reduced time on the engine etc. ‘You can get into trouble by wanting your cake and eating it too, and decide you want to go fast, and do it LOP, for me the risk isn’t worth it. ‘If you have an Ipad or Iphone, there is a neat app called Aircraft Power that seems to work very well for calculating percent power, just enter OAT, manifold pressure, RPM and indicated altitude and it gives you percent power, stay at or below 65% and you can’t hurt anything

If we are asking for parts, does anyone have a J model landing gear switch? #8906K2875

That’s a interesting thought, the C-210 was mechanical but had stops so you knew where they were in intermediate steps. ‘The Mooney’s flaps due to the over center mechanism aren’t linear, meaning the first half of the knob travel opens the flaps only slightly, but they do seem to hold where you leave them. I think that’s going to work out for cruise, I’ll see.

Actually it may be, it’s been known for a LONG time that the rough CARC paint doesn’t slow down Military jets, where in days gone past they were polished. The theory is you trap a molecule or so of air and the air shears against itself with less drag than against even a polished skin.

Read today that there will be a gasoline shortage that Summer, due to not enough qualified truck drivers. Then read also today that US manufacturing is hurting, particularly for skilled workers like welders, but in fact they can’t get even unskilled workers

Some airplanes you can hand prop from behind, most you cannot. Cub on floats you pretty much have to prop from behind, or I guess have a ladder in the water. ‘My C-140 if you try to prop from behind, with your back against the lift struts, your nose will be close to the prop, not for me. ‘I personally am against hand propping, too much downside to it, and no real upside that I can see. Neighbor has a Baby Ace, he has a glider tow hook installed after he gets into the airplane he releases the hook, we were at Deland and I asked if he wanted my help, he declined, when it started it looked like it almost got away from him, I’m sure he didn’t mean to have that much throttle, rope and hook held. The tow hook seems to be a good idea for a bad plan. Another neighbor has or had a Hatz biplane, it got away from her hand propping about a month ago and the ditch took its gear out before it got into her neighbors house, she had a dog twist screw that got pulled up, you know the ones you buy to tie down at Sun-N-fun. ‘No FAA involvement for her, good thing I suppose as she flies for Netjets.

Just read your post. If the model is different and it sounds as if it may be, then your going to have to use another approval method than the STC, unless the STC has the new model listed. ‘Knowing nothing about it, I’d suspect it to not be an issue though. With avionics it’s extremely common to install equipment that’s not covered by an STC, avionics shops pretty much have an inspector on speed dial and they have worked together so much that the shop already knows what they want, and the inspector knows they supply what he wants to see etc,. they have a working relationship, so it’s not big deal, usually. Most often the shop can tell you up front if it’s going to be hard or not. ‘If an STC doesn’t cover it, then a field approval is the way ‘It can be a big deal for a mechanic that doesn’t have that working relationship though, I’ve seen paperwork go back and forth several times and each time it reenters the que and it may be a few weeks before the inspector reviews it, marks it up and sends it back, then the process repeats.

That statement doesn’t really mean anything, what’s “normal” As far as I know if you change the model of aircraft, the data plate changes or more often I believe there is another data plate put on beside the original. ‘If that doesn’t happen, then the model of the aircraft didn’t change and things like STC’s if applicable can be installed, it’s up to the responsibility of the installer to determine applicability and suitability of the STC on that aircraft, and other installed STC’s. ‘If it becomes something other than a J and you want to install a radio for instance that has J models listed, but not the new model of your aircraft, then your going to have to have another approval method. I’d suspicion that even with the big motor and different prop, multiple batteries etc, it’s still a J model.

1/2 needle width or less could even be the natural harmonic frequency of the needle being excited by engine vibrations. hook a good multimeter to it and see if voltage is actually fluctuating. put the probes on the cigarette lighter socket any real fluctuation will be in the whole system. Or simply jumper past the switch, if it’s the switch when jumped the issue will resolve. ‘My issue is intermittent, after 10 min or so of flight it seems to stop, I think it’s my switch and it stops when the battery becomes fully charged and the amperage draw lessens, lower amp draw shoud equate to lower field current and the switch can pass a lower current without issue. ‘At least that’s my theory anyway

I don’t know anything about Rockets and Missiles, but if they were a J to start with, unless the data plate has been replaced or more often another one added, then they are still a J. This becomes important for things like STC’s etc.