Aerodon

Let me put an alternative view forward for discussion. I don't think there is or was an STC for the KAP150 in a Mooney. BK would have worked with Mooney to install it in a 231 and it was approved equipment in a certain range of models. Therefore, if you have enough information and parts, just install it as approved equipment and use the part of the AFM and its supplements to use it? You would take this approach in installing say an O2 system or any other factory option? I agree, if it was an STC, you would have difficulty in getting a permission letter. Is it wise to install a KAP150 - I'd say not. Is it wise to install a KFC150, I'd say maybe depending how much of the system you could get? Some people just don't have the $25k for a new autopilot. A long time ago, I had a KAP200 upgraded to a KFC200. We just changed out all the parts that were different, all the wiring was already in place so it was almost plug n play. Aerodon

And now for an 'Encore' I have the original sales brochures for my 1980 Seneca. A KFC200 A/P with HSI and flight director was a $9,880 option, or $31,202 in todays dollars. Thats a production line 'exchange / installed price' over and above the standard attitude and directional gyro's. If you had to take your plane to an avionics shop for a retrofit, it would probably be 50% more? I consider the KFC200 to be the peak of 'electro mechanical' devises in GA, maybe the KFC150 is a little better. So now a GFC500 with 2xGI-275's is fairly equivalent. It is the modern day KFC200 with the addition of GPS, air data and battery backup. I suspect you could get these installed for somewhere between $20 and 30K. My take is that Garmin have done a good job of packaging a lot of functionality and reliability at a reasonable price. I want them to sell 10's of thousands of these so that in 20 years there will still be factory service, parts availability and overall support. I'm done with second and third tier suppliers. I will never willingly buy another BK or S-Tec product, in fact I am going to celebrate when BK finally throw in the towel. Aerodon

Hi 'Mocha I have some documentation and knowledge on the speedbrakes. I have seen the 100 series OEM vacuum brakes on a 252 and the only difference between the 14 and 28V is a resistor to the solenoid turning the vacuum solenoid on. I have seen an 'electric' cable version on a friend's Lancair. A small electric motor winds the cable up on a capstan. I have heard that Precise Flight made a certified version of this, but not many copies were sold. (I have not verified this). You have a 262 which is an aftermarket version of the 252, you may well have an electric motor version of the 100 series speed brakes? Then the 2000 series came along which are completely different and have no cables. Take some pictures, including the actuator button and warning annunciator on the panel. Look for documentation in you POH, W&B, 337's etc. Aerodon

Here's my latest iteration for a Mooney panel. I'm trying to perfect a 3/4 panel much like the later model Mooneys, along with a ne 1/4 panel for the breakers. G500, GI-275 and EDM900. The vertical green lines are for 'radiorax' and there is space for an iPad on the copilots side (still debating). Nowadays its quite feasible to get all your radios in a single column. So I see no reason why one couldn't shift the radios over an inch or two. There is a limitation in the GTN manual on how far the GTN can be form the PFD. Structurally, the M20K has a bar all the way across the lower edge, and then rather flimsy mounting points across the top edge. Unlike the later models that had a bar across the top edge. Aerodon

I have seen some shockingly bad attempts at recreating factory paint schemes. I used Craig at Scheme Designers to replicate a Piper scheme on my Seneca (it was his design in the first place) with great success. There are numerous benefits, well worth his fee: 1) properly designed, 2) cut vinyl masking to get proper curves 3) proper rights to use the design. Imagine getting a letter from the manufacturer for copyright infringement? A distinct possibility if you copy. 4) Dispute resolution support if it's not done right. That 16 page specification is no joke, and when things are not done right, this is the starting and ending point. My paint shop used 'artistic licence' to do his own thing, despite a written specification and a written agreement to call for owners inspections at various points. It took a few months, but I got 3 of the 7 deficiencies rectified including repainting the aft half of the fuselage at no additional cost, plus some compensation for the lost time. Very unhappy at the time, but extremely satisfied with the end result.

Yes, I wasn't trying to say the 28 and 14V planes I was looking at were equivalent. The 14V plane I was worked it out for had a 35A breaker switch for the avionics master. The 28V Mooney has a 100A avionics relay, no circuit breaker or fuse. Have you noticed how some manufacturers require the same CB for 14/28V, others show say 5/3A for 14/28V. I'm working through a new CB list for a 28V M20K. New avionics installations shift some devices over to the main bus (displays, GI275, engine monitor etc.). Then in general, there's a major reduction in required power. (more integration and fewer devices). Aerodon

The drawing for a 28V M20K shows the avionics bus wire to be 10Ga. I think I looked at the allowable table and found 14Ga to be acceptable on a 14V airplane. Aerodon

OK, so then use stainless click bonds with a composite base epoxied into place: I agree, one should be really careful when drilling into any aircraft component. Often the maintenance and repair manual gives guidance on repairs, and I'd drill into a wing rib before a wing spar, and never into a wing skin. But I guess a wing skin is no different to a fuselage skin, and if you followed the same guidance for an antenna installation with doublers, that would be the basis for a wing skin mounted GMU 11. I've had a HID light ballast installed on a Super Cub wing spar. It had a metal plate mounted directly onto the flange of the spar. Aerodon

The wing skin outboard of the ailerons is 0.025, so attaching there does not meet all the criteria. Yes, levelling fore and aft can be done by locating in the right place. Levelling laterally could be done with washers. (and I don't know how thick a wing rib is, but I will go measure) Aerodon

I saw a Mooney like that and told the installer I would be really unhappy if they did it like in my plane. I have spoken with several installers who agree with me that it would not be acceptable to drill into the wing skin. For a start, Garmin specify a minimum thickness of 0.032 directly connect to the airframe structure. Antennas require a doubler, so I would think that if you attached to a wing skin you would need a doubler attached to a rib? The wing skin is likely at 6 degrees, the GMU11 must be within 3 degrees of horizontal. But it's your plane, do whatever you like. Aerodon

Here is my first attempt at making a GMU11 mount for a Mooney. I struggled to do the bends on a standard brake, but I now know what tooling to get to be able to do this nicely.It's designed to go on a rib, and is tilted at 6 degrees. I could do -6 degrees and then you could mount on the inboard side of a rib? GMU11 can be mounted facing forward or rearward, and there is enough space to install a cable tie down. Aerodon

Here's a nice leisurely trip by Nicholas Maddix in a 252 (without Monroy extended fuel I think). Some stops he didn't even pick up fuel. http://www.n97nm.com/2017/08/crossing-atlantic.html A 252 with extended fuel could do it easily, probably a few other 'standard' Mooneys too? I have a 60G Turtlepac for sale or rent if anyone needs one? Aerodon

I have 1 or 2 new GI-275's available for sale. I decided to do a G500 with one GI-275 instead. I can also make a replacement panel for your M20J or K to centralize the GI-275's. Don supercub180@gmail.com

I decided to do a G500 instead of the 275 so have this new unit available at a great price. Can add a second one, GMU11 (mag heading) and GTP59 (OAT probe). Aerodon supercub180@gmail.com

Hi Albert, My seneca has a factory blanking plate that covers 1/3rd of the oil cooler. I have used a second plate to blank off 2/3rds to get the temperatures above 180. Aerodon

Joe, The upper & lower sprockets and the chain are included in the GFC500 installation kit for the Mooney as far as I can see? Aerodon

The JPI is supposed to be grounded on the engine, seems to me there is a wire terminal looking for a home after the engine was changed.... Newer JPI harnesses have a ferrite ferule on the incoming power to remove voltage spikes - and then EDM900's and 930's are connected to the main bus not the avionics bus. Aerodon

There are several parts to an GFC500 install: 1) 1 or 2 G5's plus a GAD29B to interface to Nav systems. Associated panel work and mounting GMU11 magnetometer in the wing. Mounting the GAD 29B. OR 2) 1 or two GI275's. This is a better more expensive instrument. But it is easier to install (round hole and no remote GAD29B box to interface) 3) GFC500 controller in radio stack. Can be easy if you have space, can be difficult. 4) Suitable nav radio 5) 2, 3, or 4 servo. The wing servo is more difficult in a Mooney, the others pretty much standard. A good maintenance shop with structures experience took 65 hours for their first one. Quoted customer 30 hours, billed customer 42 hours because that's what they figure it will take to do the next one. So parts can be 50,75,100% of this. But it takes a certain amount of labour to install the first two servos and it gets more efficient to do 3 and 4.. Personally I would do GI275's. Its a better instrument, easier to install, new technology vs, 5 year old. etc. But if you have G5's already, nothing wrong with them. Aerodon

This is probably an issue to avoid confusion as to which display (and AHARS) is flying the autopilot. In a perfect world the G3x would be synchronized with the 275 and it wouldn't matter. How about labelling the GI275 as primary flight instrument and using the G3X as a backup? Aerodon

Hi Chris, I have them, send me an email. supercub180@gmail.com I'm curious to your mission, you are comparing very different airplanes. The 252/Encore is a climb high, go fast, go far airplane. Perfect for long distance 1/2 person travelling. It will probably cost twice as much to operate as a 201. The 201 is a super efficient plane, I'm not up to speed with real world payload / range statistics. Aerodon

DXB, Don't despair. I believe there is an issue with the older WX500's connecting to a GTN650/750. I think it has something to do with the GTN looking for the WX500 before the WX500 has gone through the self tests. Try powering the WX500 first, see if there are any error messages on the LED's on the front of the unit. Then power the GTN and see if you have any luck? I too have a couple of these NOS WX500's they work fine on my test rig, but one failed with a GTN750. I'm busy installing a GTN750 and plan to check it out later. Don