Bob - S50

Which model do you have? Techniques will vary depending on whether you have a carburetor, Lycoming, or Continental.

Here's the real secret to a good landing... a wet runway. Keeps the tires from grabbing when they touch the pavement. Maybe a mod that allows us to carry 5 gallons of water that are dumped out just in front of the mains just before touchdown? Still waiting for the perfect flight even after 43 years of flying.

It wouldn't hurt to have your airspeed indicator checked. When we got ours it was off by as much as 8 KIAS at some speeds. You may be going faster than you think.

We have 4 pilots in an LLC that owns our plane too. We have the 'contract' and we have a separate operating rules agreement. Be sure to put everything in one or the other. Monthly dues to pay for fixed costs and upgrades (hangar, insurance, registration, annuals, subscriptions, etc.) Hourly costs to pay for expenses related to aircraft operations (engine, oil, prop, mag, tires, plugs, etc.) Scheduling. Damage. What to do if one of you wants out. If you want a copy of our agreements, PM me and I'll send them to you. They are living agreements though, so I have a few proposed changes for our next meeting.

It's pretty rare that they will be refueling at an altitude that matters to the average Mooney driver. From what I remember, we used to like refueling in the mid 20's.

Always call ahead. Get the number off of AirNav, call them, tell them what you want to do, and ask them what fees you'll have to pay. I was doing an Angel Flight with a pick up at GEG. I called and asked about fees. They were going to charge me a fee even though I was an Angel Flight. Fortunately, SFF was more convenient for the passenger so we switched to SFF (not fees, cheaper gas, and Phillips 66 to boot). Always ask. I want to keep FBO's in business, but I don't need someone to marshal me to my parking spot, a big fancy building with new furniture and two pretty girls sitting behind the counter. Those kinds of places are more for the jet set. I just want gas, a restroom, and preferably a mechanic on the field in case I break. Anything else is a bonus. But if I have to pay a fee to land at the most convenient airport, so be it. It's just another part of the planning equation.

I'll add to the fray. We have a '78 J. I've been flying and planning on 150 KTAS at 9 GPH but up around 10,000' that's it's more like 8.7 GPH. At 6500' or 7500', I get cruise at 157 KTAS on 9.2 GPH. I'm thinking I could squeeze about 163 KTAS out of it at around 10 GPH if I ran at 2700 RPM. If you are only going to fly 250 NM, I wouldn't bother going much higher than 7500'. You'll waste more gas climbing than you save by increasing your TAS. When shopping, always ask about useful load. For the J, be suspicious about a stated useful load much over 1000#. I'm not saying it can't be done, but I'd want to verify it rather than take the owner's word for it. Ours has a UL of 970#. I've seen some for sale that were well under 900#. So what can you do with 950#UL in a J? Fill the tanks (64 gallons), load up 580# of people and bags, and fly until your bladder bursts. That would be 5 - 6 hours and almost 900NM with an hour of reserves. Or fill it to the 50 gallon tabs, load up 660# of payload, and fly about 600 NM in 4 hours. Or if payload is your primary concern, you can do what the 4 of us do, park the plane with 30 - 35 gallons on board. That would let you load up 750 - 775# of payload and fly 280 - 360 NM respectively. I'll second the suggestion made earlier, if you can find a partner, it will give you more money to buy a nicer plane to begin with and will cut your fixed costs. That will leave you more money to buy gas. Just be sure they are like minded when it comes to upgrades. Best of luck.

As Brad pointed out, you are comparing apples and oranges (intentionally)? You aren't flying an equal number or hours, you are flying an equal number of miles. I always figure actual flight time will be distance/speed + 10 minutes for climb and maneuvering in the pattern. 300 SM is actually 261 NM. I also figure that roads have turns and we can straighten them out with a plane. I figure another 15% savings in distance. That makes the trip 227 NM. Using my assumptions, and a 150 KTAS for the J, that means I'll fly 91 minutes plus 10 equals 1+41 flying time. We pay $25 hour toward hourly related maintenance and 9 GPH x $4.50/gallon = $40.50 for gas. That's $65.50 total operating cost. That makes the cost of the trip $110.25 vs Brad's $29 by car. Of course, once you get there, if you are staying a while, you'll need to rent a car too. And flying by Mooney is rarely cheaper than flying commercial either. Like others have said, we don't fly for the economics, we fly for the fun.

'78 J. I plan on 150 KTAS at 9 GPH but in reality I see: At 9500' or higher, I run WOT, 2500 RPM, just barely LOP (10F on the richest cylinder) and get 150 KTAS on 8.7 - 8.8 GPH. At 6500' or 7500', I run WOT, 2500 RPM, just barely LOP, and see 157 KTAS on 9.2 - 9.3 GPH. Down lower, say 4500 or so, I run 22", 2500 RPM, just LOP, and usually see about 145 - 150 KTAS on about 8.8 GPH.

Here is another thought. If you have an STEC autopilot based on your TC, and you say it is going to cost you $2000 to buy an overhauled ADI replacement, you might also consider replacing your ADI with a Garmin G5 which lists for $2149. If your ADI is the only vacuum driven equipment, you could then remove the vacuum system and reduce weight as well as future maintenance expenses.

We have a '78 J. If I look in the Normal Procedures section under Cruise, it talks about leaning the engine using the EGT (if installed). To me, that means it was optional equipment. We have a JPI EDM730 which is similar to your 830. We pulled the gauge and replaced it with a digital fuel gauge. Waiting for Cies to work out the programming to make our gauge (resistance) work with his floats.

Thanks All, I think we will go with Tempest for the next oil change.

Just looking for opinions, although I know they are rarely expressed here. Do any of you have a preference for oil filter brand? If so, do you prefer Champion or Tempest and why? The reason I ask is that we've been using Champion because that's what they sell at Spencer's which is the closest place to buy a filter for us. They cost about $28.50 including the tax. I just discovered that I can buy the Tempest version for $19.50 at QAA.com with no tax and free shipping. If I buy 6 at a time they are $19 even.

That would be too easy. However, yes it does remove the data along the margin. Maybe that's something Garmin could add in the next update.

Thanks. Just tried it and mine are good until January.

When the electric boost pump failed in our '78 J, we found the least expensive option was to have it overhauled at Aeromotors LLC in Wisconsin. Here is their website: Aeromotors LLC We had ours overhauled maybe 2 years ago and it has worked with no problems.

I use Garmin Pilot on an Android. I don't see any way to view the effective dates on Low Enroute charts once they've been downloaded. If I go to downloads and select Low Enroute charts, it shows that I'm in the green for the current cycle for the charts I've selected. The main download page also says that all my downloads are up to date. Now for approach plates, its relatively easy to see if a particular plate is up to date. Go to this website Terminal Procedures Search, select a state, then browse through the list until you find an approach plate that has changed. Approach plates seem to start a couple pages into the list so skip forward to page 5 or so. Find one that has changed and look at the date in the upper right corner. Just compare the date in the top right corner of that plate with one you can view on your tablet. For those not familiar, the date in the upper right is formatted, YYDDD where YY is the year and DDD is the Julian date of the year. So for changes that happened this past Nov. 10th, the date will be 16315.

This thread sort of reminds me about an old pilot union negotiation tale that went something like this: A union rep holds a meeting with the pilots he represents to give them the details of a tentative settlement with the airline. He tells them we got you a 40% pay raise, an extra 2 weeks of paid vacation, free medical insurance, double pay for redeyes, only 5 star hotels for the layover, and an extra $30/day per diem. All we have to do is fly every Wednesday. From the back of the room, someone yells, "every Wednesday?" Take what we get and choose to be happy. I always like to say that unhappy people don't live any longer than the rest of us, they just FEEL like they've lived longer.

Whiners who think they should get their way every time.

Don't feel bad. I spent 20 years on the DC9 steam gauges. When I moved over to the 757/767 I had many times when I couldn't figure out how to get the plane to do what I needed it to do by pushing buttons, at least not quickly enough. It was easier for me to turn off the magic and fly the plane by hand. Amazing how easy flying is when all you need is a hand full of yoke and a handful of throttles.

That is essential what happened to us too. Title search showed a lien from a no longer in business bank when the original owner bought the plane. We had to find out who bought that bank, contact them, and get them to send us a release from the lien. What a PITA. Worth the effort though.

I've only flown into the area a couple times and I always went to SQL. The runway is about 150' longer and the gas always seems to be cheaper, currently about $0.24/gallon cheaper. Assuming you land on 30, transient parking is a right turn off at the end and then straight ahead. The diner and office are in the building right by parking. My parents lived in the Bay Area for many years and the wind almost never blows out of the E or SE. SFO almost always uses the 28's for landing and either 28's or 01's for departures. I can't remember the last time they used anything else.

FWIW. When we calibrated our fuel gauge, we drained the tank through the gascolator. Once it stopped, we got the rest out through the sump. We only managed to get about a quart out through the sump. However, this was with the plane sitting on the ground, not in level flight attitude. To be legal, the book says each tank on the J has 1.25 gallons of unusable fuel so we put that much back in the wing and called it empty. However, I'm pretty confident, that in a real world of hurt, some of that 1.25 would be burnable. I have not had the opportunity to check. Once we install the Cies floats, I may do that on purpose. My plan would be to calibrate as required (calling 1.25 gallons as empty), then go fly and run one tank dry. Time how long the engine runs after the gauge says zero. With a known fuel flow I would then also know how much of that unusable was really usable in level smooth flight. Looks like I have a lot to do once those Cies floats are in.

However, fuel flow will not catch fuel leaks. You would think I work for Cies (but I don't), but if you get their floats and a digital fuel gauge you can have an accurate indication that WILL account for leaks. Hopefully the STC will be out for my J model soon.

I'm a conservative kind of guy. First, once you've drained the tank through the sump drain, do what Piloto says and make sure the vent/drain holes in the ribs aren't plugged. And while you are in there, look to see if there is any more fuel remaining in the tank. To me it doesn't matter what the book says I can fit in the tank, what matters is what I can actually get in there using my normal fueling procedures. If you can only get 68 gallons in using your normal procedures, tell the JPI that full is 68 gallons. If, some day, you decide you want the extra fuel and spend the extra 15 minutes dribbling in a few extra gallons, the gauge will just show full until you've burned down to 68 actual. However, when you are calibrating the JPI, be sure to wait long enough for the fuel level to stabilize before telling the JPI you've added your 5 gallon increment. On our AeroSpace Logic gauge, you fill in 2 gallon increments and watch the resistance readout until it stabilizes before you push the button and continue. Now if you really want an accurate fuel gauge, you might want to consider putting in Cies floats. We're waiting for Scott to get the STC approval before we put them in our plane.