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I've gotten ~30 hours of Mooney flying in the last 3 weeks and haven't been as active on Mooneyspace. I'll echo the suggestion that some folks back away from the keyboard and go exercise that wonderful blessing in our lives that brought us here in the first place, and maybe the sniping will go away...

Friends, Greetings from the Dallas area. New member here. I'm not sure if this is the right forum for introductions, but here it goes... I have about 450 hours flying Cessna 182 and 206. I'm currently studying for my IFR written test at this time, as I believe the IFR rating will make me a better and safer pilot. I fly between 10 and 30 hours per month depending on work. My employer owns the Cessna planes. I don't have a Mooney yet...but, I have been looking at this site and trying to learn as much as I can about these planes because I really want one. Not a Cessna, not a Bonanza, not a Piper...a Mooney. One kid in college right now prevents me from buying at this time (She knows to buy dad a Mooney after she graduates and gets a job...to say how much she appreciates dad's efforts, etc, etc, etc). :-) I hope you don't mind if I stick around...

Why do we need tfr's anyway? Stupid exercise in my opinion. Regardless of who the president is.

For me, it's positive rate of climb with no more usable runway - Gear Up. Gear up, 400' AGL and clear of obstacles - Flaps Up.

I have been up north for a week away from the internet and have just come back to this?????. I authored the Gulfstream Girl thread, because she made herself a Facebook phenomenon and did some good for GA. And her presence at OSH was pretty good. Another debacle, another locked thread with Becca and Byron at the center of it. And Mike (201'er), you have recently colluded personal attacks on a Mooneyspace individual lately (via a selective e-mail thread) on the one hand, and on the other, you have appointed yourself moral compass repairman for Mooneyspace, authoring this latest attempt at leadership. This is utterly laughable. Why don't you guys go flying? John Pleisse

I have always done pretty well at dead stick landings and every two years I get tested by an instructor and have no real issue. I have avoided practicing dead stick landings solo because I'm afraid of an accidental gear up. On the other hand, I also am afraid of the engine quitting as I think it is likely to happen to me one day. So, the other day I was tooling around on a little valley tour and when I got close to my home base, I decided to test my dead stick skills. At about 6500ft, I pulled power to idle, pulled the prop all the way back and trimmed in best glide. It was never a question of whether or not I would make the airport, it was all about what happens after I get to the airport. I show up at the airport and enter the downwind for the runway that the wind favored, but about 3,000 ft above the pattern altitude. So what do you do next? I opted to fly a great big long downwind, but how far? Not being big on math in the cockpit, I used my best guess. I rolled out on final about 1,000 ft too high and so went gear down, flaps down and forward slip. Sorry buddy, this approach ain't workin' out. I gave up on this mess, fired up the engine and initiated a go around. Embarrassing. Had this been a real emergency, I would have made the runway, but I would have skidded off the end of runway, into the dirt and it would have gotten ugly. I probably would have survived, but I doubt the plane would have. Since I'm not going to do some crazy math in the cockpit, more info about sink rates and altitude losing strategies are needed. Round II My next flight out, I went specifically to find out about sink rates. With just me on board and about 50 gallons of fuel, best glide sink was about 600 fpm. This works out to about 350' per mile forward. I then did two standard rate 180 degree turns to the left and two to the right and discovered that a standard rate 180 either way will lose about 800 ft. I then did the same thing, but instead of standard rate, I chose 30 degree bank 180 turns. Guess what? Only lost 400 ft. These are nice round numbers I can work with. I didn't have all day to do this, so back to the airport and I again arrived about 2500 ft too high. On this approach, I flew to the numbers on a crosswind and then did my 180 standard rate turn to the left (it's left traffic) and crossed over the final approach course and then used my newly found 30 degree bank back to the right. This combo had me nicely on final and still high, but this time not crazy high. I chose to go for the gear and flaps followed by a little forward slip. It all worked out pretty perfect with a nice squeaker landing with the engine still at idle. Redemption! On roll out, I realized that I never tried pushing the prop all the way forward and wished I had because I was curious how much that increased the sink rate. I still had some time, so I taxied back, took off and stayed in the pattern and climbed to about 500' above TPA. Pulled to idle and went to best glide. I flew a normal downwind, did the 30 degree bank and ended up a little high on final. Again I chose gear and full flaps, but this time also the prop forward. I slipped a little, however not as much and this time the tires squeaked pretty much on the numbers in a full stall landing. Nice day's work. Anyhow, I still have to do some research and practice strategies for losing altitude, but of course not too much altitude. I like simple round numbers and strategies. Of course the numbers would be different for different weights, but I fly by myself 95% of the time, so these numbers kind of work for me. I recommend everyone go out and see what numbers you get.

What I find amazing is the ones around their houses. Biden has one in my backyard. 1 nm and 1500 AGL. Why bother?

I suspect WAAS equipped aircraft get better handling.? http://www.faa.gov/nextgen/snapshots/slides/?slide=22&cid=TW178

Your front seats have 6 positions with arms from 36.5" to 44.0". (Each notch is 1.5") Be sure to use the forward positions in your calculations when you have rear seat passengers.

You forgot v2 + 20 ;-)

Through the Sonalert mounted above my head and right next to the gear Sonalert.

Our numbers have been more like: Annual: 2200$ Tiedown (2350), (hangar is 5 grand a year in Houston) Insurance: 1800$ unplanned maintenance: 3-5K a year. Anyone who doesnt do this will have a ton of items to address on prebuy every ten years, 20 grand for new paint/interior/radios. wear items, engine, accessories, airframe devaluation, tires, brakes, oil, avionics, etc: 32$/hr fuel 9 GPH: 50$ so, 12 grand a year if its paid off, more with a loan. Then ~90$/hr. If you try to save money by not flying at least 50 hours per year, then add another 2-3 grand to unplanned maintenance. Or a third way, ~18-25K a year. We bought ours and 15 months later swallowed a $35,500 engine replacement bill. Be ready for this.

Can Mike (Moral compass locator) be substituted with D.M.E. .....

Flying in the the SE, hangered, one million smooth insurance, 50%+ LOP so less fuel,CamGuard so lower engine reserve, no grass runways so less chance of damage, flaps on T.O. and landings so less stress on airframe, subscriptions all current so safer and no FAA issue, Plexus on windscreen for better visability, retract flaps right after touchdown so tires & brakes wear longer...the list is endless and variable per pilot. Rusults in about $18,000-22,000 annually.....BUT the wife only knows half the story.

You can count dollars about how much this or that costs but to what end? At the end of the day some things just can't be measured in dollars. And it is those intangibles that give meaning to life. Like kids, wife, family, cars, motorcycles and the Mooney! Having the keys to your own Mooney in the hangar at your disposal...priceless. I stop by the hangar at least twice a week. Sometimes I just do nothing but just check out my Mooney. Mooney therapy!

do you want the actual true cost, or just what everyone estimates...I think if we ever figured out the true costs to own mot people wouldn't. I own more becuase the benefits of having an airplane at my disposal, I hate having to rent a plane to take a trip.

I wonder if our Mooney Birdman is embarrassed by this thread Just an answer, Mike.....PLEASE, not another poll

haha. I've done that a few times.

Cleared obstacles, positive rate of climb and before VFe.

I never use flaps when alone on takeoff. With a passenger only from relatively short fiields (3000 dr or less) I always use them. Bill

I consider a positive rate of climb (PRoC) to be the absolute determining factor and a MUST before flap retraction. PRoC should be in your poll Mike. You don't you even mention it?! I retract flaps once I have a PRoC and clear of any obstacles. PRoc, gear up, flaps up.

I vote for red Mooneys.

Of course if you use a Piper knob you will lose 10 knots.