ADS-B Ipad Traffic

[rc454]

Would be interested in hearing from any users with ADS-B "out" systems displaying traffic on an ipad. I'm not interested in the ADS-B receivers (with no ADS-B out).

 

What ADS-B hardware is installed?

How is the ipad connected to the ADS receiver, (wireless or Bluetooth)?

What app(s) are you using on the ipad?

Does the ipad app provide any sort of traffic alerting, (aural or visual)?

Overall impression?

[carusoam]

There is a thread on this already. I think Brett has the ADSB- out and has posted a few photos recently.

Have you found the search button at the top right? Make sue you select the forums or it automatically searches this thread only...

Best regards,

-a-

[rc454]

Thread?  Searching for ADSB or ADS-B returns no results beyond this thread

[Marauder]

Thread? Searching for ADSB or ADS-B returns no results beyond this thread

Look in the Avionics forum for "moment of Truth" thread.

[bnicolette]

Thread?  Searching for ADSB or ADS-B returns no results beyond this thread

 

Here are a couple:

 

http://mooneyspace.com/topic/9394-portable-ads-b-solutions-moment-of-truth/

 

http://mooneyspace.com/topic/1377-monroy-atd-300/

 

 

I have the SkyguardTWX ADS-B out transmitter only box.  ($975) and using Foreflight with the Stratus 2 (although with this setup all that is required is Stratus 1)

 

The SkyguardTWX box has 3 wires coming out of it:

Transmitter antenna

WAAS GPS puck

Power cord

it also has a tiny wireless antenna sticking right out of the box so that you can program your squawk code wirelessly to the box.

[carusoam]

RC,

Welcome aboard. Wish I could have rembered that title name. I would have shared it...

Best regards,

-a-

[rc454]

Thanks All. I read through those threads. Some good information there - if you are looking for a portable option. I'm not. So I would like to continue this thread for those who are interested in mounted hardware with external antenna(s) that will be fully compliant with the upcoming ADSB 2020 rule.

 

My primary motivation for getting ADS-B right now is for traffic display/alerting. Weather to me is a nice benefit but not as important. (I can already get that on my iphone at the punch of a button). 

 

Since our airplane is "round dials" we have nothing that will display traffic. I would rather wait a little longer to upgrade the panel as options for displays are going to likely continue to become better and cheaper every year. (If I were upgrading the panel today I'd probably go with an Aspen unit...)

 

So what to do in the mean time? I'm thinking that the price for ADSB hardware is not likely to drop much more. And since several are offering wifi/Bluetooth links to ipad that seems a good interim solution for displaying traffic. Something like the NavWorx ADS600-B hardware looks attractive. Mount it permanently but as a "portable" installation (which can be done with quick disconnects). When it becomes TSO'd it will (hopefully) be a simple matter to make it an approved installation.

 

The problem I running into is that the software for displaying traffic on ipads is generally not well designed (imo). I'm not interested in just seeing traffic overlaid on a sectional - that is not an effective alerting display. The value of a traffic display is in it's ability to get your attention when a potential conflict looms. That means it has to be an uncluttered, intuitive high contrast display with alerting, preferably both visual and aural alerting, (like a TCAS display). The only two apps I've found that present a good traffic display like that are the Garmin Pilot and the ADSB View App. I don't know how good their alerting features are, but anyway their hardware options are more expensive and/or require too many modules. (Just give me one box to install please... maybe two if you count the wifi box.)

 

To sum: Looking for an "all-in-one" ADS-B out/in box that can be mounted now as a pseudo-permanent type installation, that is compatible with an ipad app that provides TCAS like traffic display/alerting and which provides a non-proprietary signal which will feed a panel mounted display whenever we decide to upgrade the panel. That would be the best of all worlds.

[Marauder]

You pretty much summed up the issue. It is highly unlikely that whatever portable unit you buy and mount today will be a quick paper approved TSO'd solution. The TSO process usually also involves approving the installation for a specific make and model. The unit may be TSO'd but your installation may not be. And until that is designed and approved, buying anything with anticipation that it will be be, is a gamble. As for the display issue, as you found out in the threads, two of the big players (Garmin and ForeFlight) have a propriety hardware solution linked to them that does not include an "out" solution at this time. You will need to do like Brett and others did and buy an "out" piece of hardware to trigger the traffic upload. You can go with WingX and use available in/out antennaes that are compatible with it. But like FF and Pilot -- no bells or whistles to alert you to traffic. But at least you have more compatible antennae offerings. You should also remember that the 2020 mandate is an "out" only mandate. You are not required to use the "in" piece to be in compliance. The FAA is using the enticement of the value of the "in" to get people to see value in it. The whole ADS-B program is the FAA's attempt to improve traffic flow. The side benefit to GA is the weather/traffic. I have been wrestling with this for a few months. And I am still in the wait and see mode since I believe there will be more available solutions forthcoming.

[Piloto]

The soluton you are looking for is pretty much what the Monroy Traffic Watch offers:

http://www.monroyaero.com/ATD300V10.pdf

 

One single box

Built in display

External Antenna

Voice warnings

ARINC 429 interface

Works everywhere

FAA approved

 

Mine is connected to a G530W but half the time I read traffic on the LED display because of the bigger font. Audio warning is a must unless you are staring at an iPad all the time. On the G530 the traffic overlay window pops up when traffic threat is within 500ft and 3 or 1nm depending on selected warning range. ADS-B would not work for me in the Bahamas and the Caribbean. The picture shows traffic in the pattern from inside my hangar.

 

José 

[rc454]

The soluton you are looking for is pretty much what the Monroy Traffic Watch offers:

http://www.monroyaero.com/ATD300V10.pdf

 

This looks similar to the Zaon unit I have tried. I was not impressed as it missed too much traffic (perhaps because I didn't have the external antenna?). 

 

Also it does not meet a couple of other my personal requirements: ADS-B out compliant and a compatible Ipad app with a TCAS type display.

[Piloto]

Anything with a portable antenna is prone to miss traffic. Unlike the Zaon the Monroy unit employs an external antenna just like the active TCAS systems. The only portables that have a TCAS like display are the Garmin units. The Garmins have also voice annunciation. For ADS-B out I am going with a Mode S 1090MHZ transponder instead of the 978 MHZ transceiver because is an ICAO requirement in some countries. For me and others ADS-B is totally useless outside the US.

 

José  

[rc454]

One of the better short summaries of ADS-B hardware options I've seen:  http://www.trig-avionics.com/adsb.html

 

Looks like a UAT is the better solution if one wants good bandwidth for receiving traffic and/or weather.

[bnicolette]

Thought this deserved to be put here also:

Foreflight now has visual and audio alerts for traffic.  So if you have ADS-B out in your airplane (portable or permanent) you will now get the alerts through Foreflight.  I happen to have a portable ADS-B out solution which works extremely well and now in conjunction with Stratus/Foreflight it is really a useful safety tool in the cockpit.

[Piloto]

Bnicolette

 

One of my hangar neighbor got a Stratus from a friend that sold his plane. He is 87 and need step by step instructions on setting the Foreflight with the Stratus. Is there a phone number to contact Foreflight or Stratus to help him on this.

 

José

[Marauder]

Thought this deserved to be put here also: Foreflight now has visual and audio alerts for traffic. So if you have ADS-B out in your airplane (portable or permanent) you will now get the alerts through Foreflight. I happen to have a portable ADS-B out solution which works extremely well and now in conjunction with Stratus/Foreflight it is really a useful safety tool in the cockpit.

Garmin just released their update that now includes voice alerts as well. Love watching these two go at it...

[bnicolette]

Bnicolette

 

One of my hangar neighbor got a Stratus from a friend that sold his plane. He is 87 and need step by step instructions on setting the Foreflight with the Stratus. Is there a phone number to contact Foreflight or Stratus to help him on this.

 

José

 

José I would have him email: team@foreflight.com and ask that they give him a call as I'm sure he won't want to email back and forth with them.

Or, find somebody at his local airport that can walk him through it as just about every personal pilot is "savvy" with it these days.

 

If you don't have any luck, PM his number and I will be more than willing to help him out over the phone.

 

B

[bnicolette]

Garmin just released their update that now includes voice alerts as well. Love watching these two go at it...

 

Like you Chris I also have a subscription to both but I am going to drop Garmin like a bad habit when renewal comes around.  I simply refuse to give them anymore of my support financial or otherwise.  I'll be as happy as the day I cancelled my XM weather subscription.  Come to think of it I wonder if I can cancel Garmin Pilot now and get a refund???  

[Marauder]

Garmin just released their update that now includes voice alerts as well. Love watching these two go at it... Like you Chris I also have a subscription to both but I am going to drop Garmin like a bad habit when renewal comes around. I simply refuse to give them anymore of my support financial or otherwise. I'll be as happy as the day I cancelled my XM weather subscription. Come to think of it I wonder if I can cancel Garmin Pilot now and get a refund???

That money my friend is down a deep hole... Be surprised if they do partial refunds. I'm going to finish out the year watching the two of them go at it. My dilemma is that ForeFlight does not work on the Android platform and I don't have a mini. I like the yoke mounted solution and only Garmin (and WingX) work on the Nexus. I am starting to warm up to ForeFlight because it seems easier to use in flight. I'm in no rush at this point to commit either way.

[fantom]

Throwing $ down the avionics black hole at this early date in the evolution of what's available this month is a common concern. Good idea to wait, pay attention and learn. While it will only get more better, solutions may not be cheaper. Traffic has only become an in-cockpit priority since it's become 'relatively' free, and as you guys have pointed out presentations still have a ways to go.

[PTK]

That money my friend is down a deep hole... Be surprised if they do partial refunds. I'm going to finish out the year watching the two of them go at it. My dilemma is that ForeFlight does not work on the Android platform and I don't have a mini. I like the yoke mounted solution and only Garmin (and WingX) work on the Nexus. I am starting to warm up to ForeFlight because it seems easier to use in flight. I'm in no rush at this point to commit either way.

The primary consideration I think in choosing an EFB is ease of use in the air.

 

I have played with three of these. Garmin Pilot, FlyQ and Foreflight.  I have no experience with WingX.

 

I have found their user friendliness in the air to be in that order. Foreflight I thought was the most user unfriendly in flight in the sense that it requires too much heads down and tapping compared to the others. It's more suited for preflight on the ground rather than in the air imo.

 

Garmin Pilot and FlyQ are more user friendly. Pilot I found was by far the most user friendly in the air. The software is purposely designed for ease of use in the air with extremely shallow menus and same icons as the GTN. Has some other really useful and unique features which simply are not present in Foreflight or FlyQ.

 

Also rumor has it that G is planning to enable Pilot to populate a flight plan from the GTN!

[mike_elliott]

 

 

Also rumor has it that G is planning to enable Pilot to populate a flight planning from the GTN!

 

 

What would be a lot better solution for pilots would be for Garmin to unscramble the data and allow their GTN stuff to talk to other mfrg's, Then solutions like Aspens connected panel would be a superior solution for all your gear. Note the reference to a better solution for pilots. Garmin doesn't have this interest as first and foremost, however. Too bad, because if they did, I am sure their current priority would be enhanced, and guys like me wouldn't be looking at BK etc for open architecture interoperability of their panels.

[PTK]

What would be a lot better solution for pilots would be for Garmin to unscramble the data and allow their GTN stuff to talk to other mfrg's, Then solutions like Aspens connected panel would be a superior solution for all your gear. Note the reference to a better solution for pilots. Garmin doesn't have this interest as first and foremost, however. Too bad, because if they did, I am sure their current priority would be enhanced, and guys like me wouldn't be looking at BK etc for open architecture interoperability of their panels.

Even better, Mike, would be for Aspen and others to develop their own hardware solutions where they don't NEED Garmin!

 

While Garmin innovates from the bottom up marching on with product after product, Aspen and others putz around aimlessly crying and throwing fits! Why? Because they desperately need to latch on but can't!

[fantom]

Even better, Mike, would be for Aspen and others to develop their own hardware solutions where they don't NEED Garmin!

 

While Garmin innovates from the bottom up marching on with product after product, Aspen and others putz around aimlessly crying and throwing fits! Why? Because they desperately need to latch on but can't!

 

Just how much Garmin stock do you hold, Peter?

[PTK]

The point is, Gary, that right now as I write this, you can go on Aspen's website and you will find "fantom products" (pun intended!) eg. the evolution backup display and the APS4A altitude preselect, to name a couple. These are pretty pictures and illusions. The BU display doesn't exist, and the alt prerselect if it exists is made by an overseas company and may partially work with a couple autopilots. Good luck getting support. I know it will not work with the KFC.

 

Of course we all know what happened with the BK 770 fiasco.

 

But also as I write this, they're up in arms complaining how horrible Garmin is!

 

​I think it's hilarious!

[fantom]

http://www.dailyfinance.com/quote/nasdaq/garmin/grmn/charts Their stock movement is a roller coaster.

 

I don't see anyone complaining about Garmin's products.

 

What is offensive are their predatory marketing tactics, their unwillingness to offer reasonable upward product migration without excess expense, their not playing well with others for our common good even as they are the 800 pound gorilla on the block, their overpriced 'one size' repair cost, their seeming price fixing to dealers and then unto us, the cost for DB updates, and their push to across the board corner the market.

 

Their products and technical development are fine, their marketing/sales/pricing is very suspect. Be thankful guys like Aspen are out there to al least give some pause for concern to Garmin.

 

Just not healthy for GA, IMO, and I don't trust Garmin for a New York or Jersey minute!