Portable ADS-B Solutions -- Moment of Truth!

[Marauder]

I know there have been a series of threads and posts on portable ADSB solutions. I have read through them and when I thought I had gotten to a "moment of truth", I realized I was still not clear on all the options available. And I am sure, there are others like me. So, let me start with what I do know (which is not much at this point):

 

P.S. I am only interested in portable solutions...

 

ForeFlight -- you can use either the Appareo Stratus first or second generation to obtain ADSB Weather and Traffic. The difference between the two generation antennae is explained on their website as:

 

How does the second generation Stratus compare to the first generation?

Both the first and second generation Stratus are capable ADS-B weather receivers. The second generation Stratus adds a second (1090 MHz) radio for receiving more air-to-air traffic, adds an AHRS to support additional app displays and gives the pilot the ability to remote the GPS antenna to provide for additional mounting options.

 

Summary: ForeFlight ONLY supports the Appareo antennae for ADSB information. No other antennae are compatible. You will only get ALL "reporting" traffic if you have some ADSB out device on your plane to make this happen. Otherwise, you will only get traffic due to a nearby plane transmitting "out" and you pick up the reply. Is my understanding correct?

 

Garmin Pilot -- you can only use one supported provider of the antennae the Garmin GDL-39. Here is the description from Garmin:

• Receives subscription-free weather
• Acquires ADS-B traffic targets
• Wireless Bluetooth™ connectivity
• Built-in WAAS GPS receiver
• Integrates with Garmin Pilot app and Garmin aviation portables

Summary: Like ForeFlight, you can only use one antennae with their Garmin Pilot app. No other device will work. You will only get ALL "reporting" traffic if you have some ADSB out device on your plane to make this happen. Otherwise, you will only get traffic due to a nearby plane transmitting "out" and you pick up the reply. Is my understanding correct?

 

WingX --this is where things get interesting and where I need your help understanding options. It appears Hilton has an open hierarchy philosophy and allows for multiple antennae with a variety of capabilities. It is also clear that Appareo and Garmin antenna offerings are NOT compatible. Here is what they present on their website:

 

http://hiltonsoftware.com/ADS-B-Receivers.pdf?x=1

 

In a nutshell:

 

XGPS180 (Dual) gives you 978

XPLORER (FreeFlight Systems) gives you 978

iLevil SW (Levil Technologies) gives you 978 & AHRS

iLevil AW (Levil Technologies) gives you 978 & AHRS & pressure sensors (targeted for home built community)

SkyRadar-L (Radenna LLC) gives you 978

SkyRadar-D2 (Radenna LLC) gives you 978 & 1090

Clarity (Sagetech Corp) gives you 978 & 1090

Clarity SV (Sagetech Corp) gives you 978 & 1090 & AHRS

978UAT (SkyGuardTWX) gives you 978

978UAT Dual (SkyGuardTWX) gives you 978 & 1090

MX1090 – left off because it doesn’t give you 978

 

Summary: Unlike ForeFlight Garmin Pilot, you can use a bunch of different antennae with their app. You will only get ALL "reporting" traffic if you have some ADSB out device on your plane to make this happen. Otherwise, you will only get traffic due to a nearby plane transmitting "out" and you pick up the reply. If you purchase an AHRS unit, you may also use this in WingX for a portable attitude indicator. Is my understanding correct?

 

I know there are other apps like MyWingMan, but I concentrated on what I consider the "big 3".

 

I have come to the conclusion that I will wait a year or two for the panel mounted hardware situation to settle out. Both Garmin & Aspen have panel mounted ADSB solutions, but I am convinced that better and cheaper solutions will enter the market. At least, I hope so.

 

So here I stand, money in hand, looking for a viable portable ADSB solution. Spend my money for me…

 

I do not have an ADSB out device in my plane.

I can switch apps; I current have ForeFlight & Garmin Pilot loaded up

I use an iPad 2, iPhone 5 and a Nexus 7

 

What I want is:

 

An app that allows me to get weather uploaded to one or more of these devices

Can see traffic regardless of whether or not I have an airplane near me spewing an “out” signal

Can take advantage of the Xavion I just bought (Thanks Jim)

An app that is easy to use

 

 

[bnicolette]

I purchased the Stratus 2 to use with Foreflight and also purchased the SkyguardTWX ADS-B Out box (portable).  I finally got to try it today on a short 20 minute flight.  I was very impressed with the SkyguardTWX box.  Here are some screen pics from the iPad mini and the last one is from the iPhone.

 

As far as I know I should get "all" the traffic now that is within 15nm and +- 3500 of my altitude.  Well mode C traffic that is.

 

The attitude indicator picture is the Stratus 2 AHRS running the Horizon app.

[Marauder]

Thanks Brett. So, the Stratus 2 is $799 & the SkyGuard is $1,475. I didn't realize that there was a SkyGuard unit that does the ADS-B out. What I am having a hard time understanding is that I thought ForeFlight would only work with Stratus. So, are you telling me that you use the SkyGuard only to drive the "out" signal so the Stratus will pick up traffic in case there are no "out" planes in the area?

 

Did I get that right? Wouldn't it have been cheaper to go to WingX and use their app? Or am I missing something?

[Marauder]

Thanks Jim. You beat me to the reply. Ok, I get what Brett is doing. He is using the cheaper one. Makes sense. Have you used WingX? I'm not married to ForeFlight, but do like Garmin Pilot and have not done anything with WingX (other than to watch their You Tube videos).

[bnicolette]

That is correct Chris except that the "out" only SkyguardTWX is $975.  My problem is that I'm stuck on Foreflight.  I have tried the others and for whatever reason Foreflight just tickles my fancy.

 

The only thing I'm not crazy about with the SkyguardTWX unit is that it has to have a 12V receptacle but perhaps it could be hard wired in?  At the moment I have it situated in the baggage area on the floor.

[OR75]

There are also two other Apps that may be worth looking at as well:

 

FlyQ EFB (AOPA): I tested it and it is actually quite user friendly to use and open to more devices (altjough list is limited for now)

 

MyWingMan (BendixKing): I will be testing it after I am done with FlyQ EFB

[jetdriven]

Garmin now has a map that looks much like the GNS and GTN boxes.  No annoying north up or track up with an upside down raster map.  For now, Im sitting on the GDL-39/Aera/iPad/iPhone app and waiting for this to shake out. I hate silver boxes with cords.

[KSMooniac]

I'm ready for step-change in VFR charts too.  I like what Jepp attempted a few years ago with their VFR+GPS charts or whatever they were called.  It is probably time to come up with something reflective of modern technology and the way we fly where even the simplest NORDO aircraft likely has a portable electronic device with a moving map.  Vector graphics would be a must of course, with various layers of detail such as SUA, city boundaries, obstacles, lakes, roads/train tracks, etc.  It is hard to read much of a sectional unless zoomed in pretty far IMO.

 

I'm casually following along with no plans to purchase any of this stuff soon... I'll probably be the last person to get ADS-B coverage at home so I'm in no hurry.  I also bet wrong 2 years ago and have a nice Android Xoom tablet that doesn't have many options for aviation apps.    One of these years I guess I'll get an iPad, reluctantly.  I am ready to ditch the XM subscription, though, and the good thing is it seems there is a very competitive market for portable ADS-B solutions and the prices are getting better.  

[Marauder]

For me the challenge has been VFR flying. Sandwiched between the SFRA and Philly Class B, a couple of class D's and the VIP TFRs for my local boy Joe, anytime I want to shoot down to the beaches or swing out east to the shore (In Delaware we call them beaches and in Jersey it's DA shoooore) on a nice sunny day, the corridor gets pretty busy. And with rumors that the Class B is heading further west, it will only get worse. Having weather onboard would also be nice. I share Byron's feelings on the "silver boxes". When I had a portable GPS, I got sick of the dangling wires and had them run through the yoke. If I could remote mount the unit and power it like Brett, that would work. For those of you with WingX, are you happy with it? I am tempted to download it and give it a try but I will need to dump either the Pilot or ForeFlight -- running out of room. Now looking at it from a cost perspective, Brett's solution looks like it cost him around $1775. It will cost me roughly the same for the GDL-39 and SkyGuard combination. Or I could go with the deluxe SkyGuard and for $1475 and use WingX. Hmmm....

[jetdriven]

Encounters with weather kill half of the pilots that crash Mooneys. Midairs are a distant thirty-third.   For that, I think weather in the cockpit is nearly a requirement, and traffic is a cool novelty.

 

Get the weather gear you like. Worry about traffic later.

 

That said, I'll probably get t-boned next week  by a Cirrus pilot who hasnt looked outside since he left Duluth with a new airplane. But the odds are on my side its still a pretty big sky.

[Marauder]

Encounters with weather kill half of the pilots that crash Mooneys. Midairs are a distant thirty-third. For that, I think weather in the cockpit is nearly a requirement, and traffic is a cool novelty. Get the weather gear you like. Worry about traffic later. That said, I'll probably get t-boned next week by a Cirrus pilot who hasnt looked outside since he left Duluth with a new airplane. But the odds are on my side its still a pretty big sky.

LOL! But so true. My spider senses have been on high alert for traffic for the past few weeks. I had two encounters in the past month flying the "corridor" that just heightened things a bit. I have flown that same corridor for 18 years and it just has seemed to picked up in the past year or so. Could be that people are trying to stay away from Joe's house and the 60 nm ring. There is a slot of about 15 nm between the class D and the restricted airspace. I think for whatever reason, traffic seems higher this past year. I agree on the weather. I do feel a little exposed since removing my WX-8 in December. It was not the greatest for pinpointing activity but it definitely showed me which direction not to go.

[201er]

Come see my toys Saturday when I fly up to New Garden. You can check out my WingX + Clarity SV. Maybe you'll reveal to me what you wash your plane with to make it so slick.

[Marauder]

Come see my toys Saturday when I fly up to New Garden. You can check out my WingX + Clarity SV. Maybe you'll reveal to me what you wash your plane with to make it so slick.

Cool. I have been wanting to see WingX in person. Maybe I should bring out my bucket and wash your plane to show you how to do it correctly. You do wax your's right?

[wishboneash]

If you have a Garmin 696/796 or some of the earlier Garmin portables, the GDL-39 will drive those along with an iPAD. This was the only reason I went for this solution. It will provide GPS input to a Xavion, but not compatible for traffic or weather. I am using Anywheremap (AWM) for now on the iPAD (I used Garmin Pilot for 6 months and liked it) but am hoping that my lifetime subscription to AWM has some legs left. If AWM goes down the drain, then I may go with Garmin Pilot which is the only ADS-B rx it works with. Eventually get the GDL-88 for ADS-B out. So, to give a lease on life to the 696 and not going with XM this is the best solution for me.

[FlyDave]

I switched from WingX to Garmin Pilot about 8 months ago because I don't care for Hilton Software's development "strategy" (doesn't have one) and the inconsistency of their ADS-B implementation.

I bought the first SkyRadar ADS-B box and never got consistent weather on it. I would usually load NexRad but wouldn't update it. It worked much better with the SkyRadar app so I don't think it was the box. This makes me skeptical of they truly supporting multiple units. Hilton just seems to graft as many features as they can to the existing app - that was and probably still is developed in Hilton's garage. Search the forums for my threads on WingX for exactly what I'm talking about.

Garmin Pilot is a professionally developed app that starts to look and feel like their handhelds. I have absolutely no problem with them only supporting their own unit because they can and will keep up with additional feature THAT WORK and bug fixed that come out quickly.

WingX has some great features but I got too frustrated with the app and Hilton's lip service when issues are brought to their attention to continue using it. So I'll be getting the GDL-69 and upgrading my GTX-330 to ES and I'll have weather and traffic.

[Marauder]

I switched from WingX to Garmin Pilot about 8 months ago because I don't care for Hilton Software's development "strategy" (doesn't have one) and the inconsistency of their ADS-B implementation.

I bought the first SkyRadar ADS-B box and never got consistent weather on it. I would usually load NexRad but wouldn't update it. It worked much better with the SkyRadar app so I don't think it was the box. This makes me skeptical of they truly supporting multiple units. Hilton just seems to graft as many features as they can to the existing app - that was and probably still is developed in Hilton's garage. Search the forums for my threads on WingX for exactly what I'm talking about.

Garmin Pilot is a professionally developed app that starts to look and feel like their handhelds. I have absolutely no problem with them only supporting their own unit because they can and will keep up with additional feature THAT WORK and bug fixed that come out quickly.

WingX has some great features but I got too frustrated with the app and Hilton's lip service when issues are brought to their attention to continue using it. So I'll be getting the GDL-69 and upgrading my GTX-330 to ES and I'll have weather and traffic.

 

 

Thanks for thoughts on this Dave. I had heard rumblings about WingX. People either loved or hated their approach. Guess I should spend a bit more time on the internet researching it. I do know that they gained favor by opening up their hierachy and allowing many different hardware solutions to work with it. Obviously -- if your issues are related to incomplete testing or compatibility, then it does pose a problem.

 

I started out with ForeFlight and still have it. It was a decent priced package with nice features. When Garmin Pilot lowered their prices, I bought that app. What I like about it is that it looks like my GTN 650. Similar button screen approach and layout for the GUI. Where I am torn between the two is features in one over the other. The Garmin Pilot (iPad version) has all the TFRs, a VFR/IFR nav screen (no features just the nav stuff) and like you said, they stay on top of updates. What I don't like about it is that I use the Pilot version in the plane on a Nexus 7. Although they look similar, it is clear two different development teams are working on the two versions. The Nexus version is weak compared to the iOS version.

 

ForeFlight has some nice features like preferred routing. Makes it a lot easier to build a route. In Pilot, you select your starting airport and destination and then need to insert airways with exits, etc. If it is a long flight you can spend a bit of time on it. ForeFlight is also supported on Connected Pilot which can speed up my pre-flight process by downloading all of that into the navigator.

 

With the panel mounted stuff fairly expensive, I thought I could use a portable solution until better pricing or more offerings hit the market. If Garmin played nice with Aspen and allowed it to connect to the Connected Pilot, it would be a no brainer for me.

[Marauder]

Thanks Jim. Pilot is polished but not perfect. I like open hierarchy approach. It gives the consumer some flexibility on the offerings. If ForeFlight had a better interface ( and I agree, it is still not intuitive for me either), it would be a done deal. I thought I understood the new wireless options Aspen is offering, but I just saw this video and I think it is saying you can work outside of ForeFlight. Can you take a look at this video and let me know what you think he is saying with the WiFi solution?

I thought for sure you were limited to the ForeFlight but he said non TSO portable receivers. If I understand this correctly, I can possible use the GDL-39 and Pilot and have it wirelessly port to over to my Aspen MFD. If that is true, I think I know which way I am going.

[Piloto]

Do any of these portable ADS-B in has voice traffic warning like TCAS? To me that is an important feature. Otherwise you would need to be looking at the tablet continuosly to asses the threats. This could be cumbersome in rough weather were your tablet may be jumping all over. On the Monroy ATD-300 a female voice alerts you when traffic is a threat and automatically a TCAS window pops up on the G530 showing the threat in yellow. Very effective for avoiding a collision.

 

José

[bnicolette]

Do any of these portable ADS-B in has voice traffic warning like TCAS? To me that is an important feature. Otherwise you would need to be looking at the tablet continuosly to asses the threats. This could be cumbersome in rough weather were your tablet may be jumping all over. On the Monroy ATD-300 a female voice alerts you when traffic is a threat and automatically a TCAS window pops up on the G530 showing the threat in yellow. Very effective for avoiding a collision.

 

José

 

They don't yet Jose, but with the strides these developers (Garmin, Foreflight, etc) are making, I wouldn't be surprised to see that added at some point along with a weather & terrain warning.  At the very minimum they could make the screen flash or something and that would surely get my attention.

[bnicolette]

What are your thoughts on the developers that have exclusive use of one unit: Garmin Pilot/GDL - Foreflight/Stratus that say they do it so they work seamlessly together?  Do you think it's just a sales pitch and they're doing that purely for profit reasons or do you think that there is some validity to it?

 

I do wish that Stratus would allow the use of the AHRS to be piped to Xavion and not sure why they won't?  Austin (Xavion) did say that he was hoping to be able to use the Stratus AHRS later this year but Appareo says it's not going to happen.

[Piloto]

They don't yet Jose, but with the strides these developers (Garmin, Foreflight, etc) are making, I wouldn't be surprised to see that added at some point along with a weather & terrain warning.  At the very minimum they could make the screen flash or something and that would surely get my attention.

I don't think the flashy screen will do it since in turbulent weather most pilots will set aside the tablet and focus on attitude, air speed, altitude and heading. Why do you think the stall warning is a horn.

 

José 

[Marauder]

Take a look at this Jim. Sure the heck sounds like it will work with the GDL-39. http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2013/March/26/Aspens-new-ADS-B-solutions.aspx

[jetdriven]

Do any of these portable ADS-B in has voice traffic warning like TCAS? To me that is an important feature. Otherwise you would need to be looking at the tablet continuosly to asses the threats. This could be cumbersome in rough weather were your tablet may be jumping all over. On the Monroy ATD-300 a female voice alerts you when traffic is a threat and automatically a TCAS window pops up on the G530 showing the threat in yellow. Very effective for avoiding a collision.

 

José

my GDL-39 audio output is wired to pin 13 on my KMA-20 audio panel. It says "Traffic," "Obstacle ahead, pull up,", "terrain, terrain, pull up,", and "500" all come in through the intercom.

[Marauder]

Do any of these portable ADS-B in has voice traffic warning like TCAS? To me that is an important feature. Otherwise you would need to be looking at the tablet continuosly to asses the threats. This could be cumbersome in rough weather were your tablet may be jumping all over. On the Monroy ATD-300 a female voice alerts you when traffic is a threat and automatically a TCAS window pops up on the G530 showing the threat in yellow. Very effective for avoiding a collision. José my GDL-39 audio output is wired to pin 13 on my KMA-20 audio panel. It says "Traffic," "Obstacle ahead, pull up,", "terrain, terrain, pull up,", and "500" all come in through the intercom.

Get out of here! Really? I didn't know it had an output. I need to look at the GDL-39 a little closer. It sounds like it has features that aren't well advertised.

[bnicolette]

I don't think the flashy screen will do it since in turbulent weather most pilots will set aside the tablet and focus on attitude, air speed, altitude and heading. Why do you think the stall warning is a horn.

José

Thats probably true I guess but my iPad Mini is on my yoke so it would be hard to miss.

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