IFR Training

[PTK]

You need VFR weather for the check-ride as most examiners will not risk it. But for training there is no substitute for the real thing. You should demand it otherwise your instructor is doing you a major disservice. 

If you "barely" passed the written and have no training in actual maybe you should find another instructor for the rest of your training. 

[flyboy0681]

The written and oral are the hardest part because for the most part they have nothing to do with the actual process of flying IFR. I was shocked at how unprepared I was for actual IFR flying from the process after I got my ticket.

 

 

 

I mentioned just last week to my CFI that once I get my ticket I plan on traveling to someplace in the country where some form of IFR conditions usually exist (Northwest?) and just find a flight school where I can take many flights with a CFI in actual conditions. Down here in Florida the only actual conditions we'll get for the rest of the year typically have convection attached to it.

[usafhaynes1]

My cross country was IMC for enroute, was hazy for the approaches.  Everything else has been clear skies.  Believe me, I've had actual spatial disorientation recently and quickly realized I was in a descending (on purpose) right hand turn (thought I was straight and level).  Training kicked in and I trusted my instruments, made the corrections and took that as an invaluable lesson.  My first flights as with an IR will have high minimums until I get more experience, comfortability.  Again, I still say out loud my landing checklist to ensure everything is complete, then I double check the landing gear!

I refer to my ability as confident with humility.

[bnicolette]

My cross country was IMC for enroute, was hazy for the approaches. 

 

Looking at Flightaware and wx for those times and dates I don't see any IMC assuming you were not busting regulations and flying IMC during VFR operations at some other time.  The only reason I continue with this is we have seen enough folks with bold ego's destroy their airplanes/lives and take innocent unsuspecting passengers with them.  I fear that not having been exposed to real IMC you are not prepared to handle anything other than the IFR checkride itself which is in NO way an absolute indicator that you are able to handle the airplane in real conditions.  I always made sure to expose my IFR students to as much as I could so that I knew they were prepared. (Before they were sent for their check ride as I had no control over them after that ticket was in their hands) Your instructor with being bored as you are so talented is setting you up for disaster.  Get some REAL IMC experience with a good instructor (one that's not afraid to train in IMC conditions) that will put you through your paces in IMC before you head out there alone.......please.

 

There are NO issues with training in actual IMC.  ATC will work with you for block altitudes/airspace so you may perform turns, slow flight, maneuvers, emergencies, etc........ 

 

 

 

 

12-Apr-13           Started IFR near Wood County @ approx 5pm     METAR KJDD 122215Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 24/04 A2992 RMK AO2 Arrived John Bell @ 6:43pm       METAR KHKS 122353Z 35005KT 10SM CLR 21/04 A2994 RMK AO2 SLP133 T02060039 10228 20194 55000             13-Apr-13           Departed John Tune @ 5pm        METAR KBNA 132153Z 06007KT 10SM SCT250 20/02 A3001 RMK AO2 SLP162 T02000017 Arrived John Bell @ 7:11pm       METAR KHKS 140053Z 09004KT 10SM CLR 22/08 A2992 RMK AO2 SLP126 T02170083             14-Apr-13           Departed John Tune @ 12:11pm       METAR KBNA 141653Z 14008KT 10SM SCT150 BKN210 OVC250 22/06 A2993 RMK AO2 SLP131 THN SPTS INOVC T02170056 Arrived Chesapeake Regional @ 3:28pm     METAR KCPK 142055Z AUTO 10SM CLR 22/04 A3009 RMK AO2               20-Apr-13           Departed Chesapeake Regional @ 3:28pm     METAR KCPK 201935Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 15/02 A3013 RMK AO2 Arrived Allentown @ 5:21pm       METAR KXLL 202135Z AUTO 28011G22KT 10SM SCT065 11/M06 A3011 RMK AO2             21-Apr-13           Departed Allentown @ approx 8am       METAR KXLL 211215Z AUTO 01012G17KT 10SM CLR 02/M06 A3057 RMK AO2 Arrived Chesapeake @ 10:24am       METAR KCPK 211435Z AUTO 04014G22KT 10SM CLR 12/02 A3053 RMK AO2

[Marauder]

If you are set on continuing using your current instructor, you may want to explore having another CFII assess your readiness. Although my instructor was a crusty instructing veteran (if I ever hear the term "double your correction angle" again; I will go bonkers), he taught in his comfort zone and a certain style. It made learning some concepts a bit tougher. We flew IMC but he seemed more enamored with flying the same approaches at the same airports.

I went up with a couple of different CFIIs who taught me different ways to solve the same problem, including enroute IFR. Sometimes a different approach (pun intended) to training helps develop the understanding of a concept.

In addition, I did fly with safety pilots when I wasn't flying with instructors to hone my basic airmanship.

Be safe!

[usafhaynes1]

 

Looking at Flightaware and wx for those times and dates I don't see any IMC assuming you were not busting regulations and flying IMC during VFR operations at some other time.  The only reason I continue with this is we have seen enough folks with bold ego's destroy their airplanes/lives and take innocent unsuspecting passengers with them.  I fear that not having been exposed to real IMC you are not prepared to handle anything other than the IFR checkride itself which is in NO way an absolute indicator that you are able to handle the airplane in real conditions.  I always made sure to expose my IFR students to as much as I could so that I knew they were prepared. (Before they were sent for their check ride as I had no control over them after that ticket was in their hands) Your instructor with being bored as you are so talented is setting you up for disaster.  Get some REAL IMC experience with a good instructor (one that's not afraid to train in IMC conditions) that will put you through your paces in IMC before you head out there alone.......please.

 

There are NO issues with training in actual IMC.  ATC will work with you for block altitudes/airspace so you may perform turns, slow flight, maneuvers, emergencies, etc........ 

 

 

 

 

12-Apr-13           Started IFR near Wood County @ approx 5pm     METAR KJDD 122215Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 24/04 A2992 RMK AO2 Arrived John Bell @ 6:43pm       METAR KHKS 122353Z 35005KT 10SM CLR 21/04 A2994 RMK AO2 SLP133 T02060039 10228 20194 55000             13-Apr-13           Departed John Tune @ 5pm        METAR KBNA 132153Z 06007KT 10SM SCT250 20/02 A3001 RMK AO2 SLP162 T02000017 Arrived John Bell @ 7:11pm       METAR KHKS 140053Z 09004KT 10SM CLR 22/08 A2992 RMK AO2 SLP126 T02170083             14-Apr-13           Departed John Tune @ 12:11pm       METAR KBNA 141653Z 14008KT 10SM SCT150 BKN210 OVC250 22/06 A2993 RMK AO2 SLP131 THN SPTS INOVC T02170056 Arrived Chesapeake Regional @ 3:28pm     METAR KCPK 142055Z AUTO 10SM CLR 22/04 A3009 RMK AO2               20-Apr-13           Departed Chesapeake Regional @ 3:28pm     METAR KCPK 201935Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 15/02 A3013 RMK AO2 Arrived Allentown @ 5:21pm       METAR KXLL 202135Z AUTO 28011G22KT 10SM SCT065 11/M06 A3011 RMK AO2             21-Apr-13           Departed Allentown @ approx 8am       METAR KXLL 211215Z AUTO 01012G17KT 10SM CLR 02/M06 A3057 RMK AO2 Arrived Chesapeake @ 10:24am       METAR KCPK 211435Z AUTO 04014G22KT 10SM CLR 12/02 A3053 RMK AO2

 

 

While I appreciate the comments meant for the original post, the above reference from flightaware assumes a lot:

1. My cross country flight was on 30 march in a cessna with an instructor.

2. What Bnicolette posted from flight aware was my VFR Mooney that I bought and ferried home. None of which was done under IMC conditions.  It's currently a VFR aircraft (IFR pending).

3. Flightaware didn't pick up my flight back to TN that left early morning to stay in front of an incoming storm.  I took off with 10k ceilings and 7 SM vis.  I could see my instruments, I could see the ground and night flight is a bit different than day.  Don't assume flightaware has all the info.

4. Bnicollette, don't assume just because I didn't pass the written with flying colors that I don't take flight conditions or my capabilities/limitations seriously.

 

My original intent on this post was for advice or comments on my upcoming IFR checkride, NOT to express my IFR capabilities, which, just as in my private pilot training, is nothing more than a license to learn, not a license to fly through any weather if I feel like it. 

 

I'm not here to boast EGO which will get people killed, and in my opinion, is more apparent in pilots with many hours, nor am I here to get lambasted about my IFR training.  I'm a capable pilot, learning IFR.

 

I'm here to learn more about the Mooney community, contribute as able, share my flight experiences and continue to make the world around me excited as I am about flying their own plane, which actually surprises my co-workers.  It absolutely amazes co-workers that I can jump in my plane at will, after some initial mission planning, and simply fly anywhere.  I want to pass my IFR checkride and then start to gain experience in IFR conditions (VERY light at first) and share that knowledge and experience in a learning environment.

 

I'm also sure I'm not the first IFR student to complete 99% of his training in VMC conditions.

[usafhaynes1]

If you are set on continuing using your current instructor, you may want to explore having another CFII assess your readiness. Although my instructor was a crusty instructing veteran (if I ever hear the term "double your correction angle" again; I will go bonkers), he taught in his comfort zone and a certain style. It made learning some concepts a bit tougher. We flew IMC but he seemed more enamored with flying the same approaches at the same airports.

I went up with a couple of different CFIIs who taught me different ways to solve the same problem, including enroute IFR. Sometimes a different approach (pun intended) to training helps develop the understanding of a concept.

In addition, I did fly with safety pilots when I wasn't flying with instructors to hone my basic airmanship.

Be safe!

 

I've already requested a safety pilot to help me when I get my IR and my Mooney IFR certified to ensure I can handle the workload!  I'll stick with my current CFI since I'm only practicing for checkride at this point.  But the difference between a G1000 Cessna and my Mooney is HUGE and I don't feel comfortable taking it out for an IFR plan (in actual IMC conditions) without some practice beforehand.

[bnicolette]

I've already requested a safety pilot to help me when I get my IR and my Mooney IFR certified to ensure I can handle the workload!  I'll stick with my current CFI since I'm only practicing for checkride at this point.  But the difference between a G1000 Cessna and my Mooney is HUGE and I don't feel comfortable taking it out for an IFR plan (in actual IMC conditions) without some practice beforehand.

 

Awesome.  Glad to hear that.

 

You did mention that you were training in the Cessna with a G1000 so my apologies for that presumptuous post with regards to your Mooney and Flightaware.  My bad.

[FlyDave]

Wow....I have to chime in here and AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY with Brett! He not only brings the CFII experience to the discussion but also real world experience flying jets in all sorts of weather.

His remarks remind me of my CFII that flew with me in <<almost>> any conditions we could find in Southern California (usually IMC but not really nasty stuff like the mid west or north east).

As Brett said, when flying in actual you can't just take off the foggles.....you're in the soup and YOU BETTER FLY THE AIRPLANE APPROPRIATELY or there is a high risk of death to you and your passengers as well as people on the ground. Actual IMC is no where near the same thing as simulated!

I have a healthy respect for IMC. I am a private pilot and don't get to fly actual as frequently as I would like to or should. "Legal" instrument currency is a joke - at best. If I haven't at least done simulated practice and approaches in the last month, I would not feel comfortable going off into any real actual without another pilot with me.

[DonMuncy]

I had virtually zero actual IMC time when I got my instrument ticket. It was a pretty slow process learning to fly in weather. I flew a lot in barely marginal stuff and creeped onto the real stuff. I am still very conservative in my weather flying, as I don't do enough of it to claim to be that good. If the ceilings are forecast for less than 600 at my destination, I don't go.

[usafhaynes1]

DonMuncy,

I can wholeheartedly relate and feel that your experience will be my own.  Other than a two hour'ish flight to NY or Myrtle Beach, most of my cross country will be quarterly flights from VA to MS for guard duty.  I plan on filing IFR (even in clear weather) to gain experience but am considering a minimum 1k ceiling for landings.  I'm sure I'll be paying for safety pilots to help with proficiency (not just currency).

[midlifeflyer]

Well that's just not so. 

It is up to a point. The PTS tasks include partial panel flight, including partial panel unusual attitude recoveries. Perhaps you think it's a good idea to cover instruments up and put the airplane into an extreme bank and pitch attitude  with no visual references for either student or instructorr but I suspect most CFIIS would look at that they way they would shutting down the engine entirely to simulate engine out practice for a primary student.. 

[chrisk]

First, I have not had my IFR ticket for very long (January).  I got my training in Michigan (in a 172) and most was in real IMC, and about half at night.  For me, the biggest difference was turbulence and ice.   Flying in the clouds was bumpy.  And it's amazing how fast a plane can pick up ice.  I believe we did unusual attitude recovery in simulated conditions, but real VMC.

 

My hardest approach was a VOR-A without a DG or AI (I think he covered the TC as well). The compass sure bounces around! 

 

Transitioning to my new Mooney has been hard.  Things happen a lot faster.

[midlifeflyer]

First, I have not had my IFR ticket for very long (January).  I got my training in Michigan (in a 172) and most was in real IMC, and about half at night.  For me, the biggest difference was turbulence and ice.   Flying in the clouds was bumpy.  And it's amazing how fast a plane can pick up ice.  I believe we did unusual attitude recovery in simulated conditions, but real VMC.

 

My hardest approach was a VOR-A without a DG or AI (I think he covered the TC as well). The compass sure bounces around! 

 

Transitioning to my new Mooney has been hard.  Things happen a lot faster.

They do. And if this is your first transition (especially if it's also your first transition to something substantially faster), you can expect it to be the most difficult one. They get easier as our brain begins to pick up the similarities and reserve most of your thinking for only the differences. Best advice is the famous dialog:

 

Q. What are the two most important things in aviation?

A. The next two.

[Marauder]

My hardest approach was a VOR-A without a DG or AI (I think he covered the TC as well). The compass sure bounces around! Transitioning to my new Mooney has been hard. Things happen a lot faster.

That approach story brought back memories of me doing an NDB approach with the same failures. I went out and bought a vertical card compass the next week (little did that help!). I did my instrument in my Mooney and I agree, things happen quickly. I used to joke with my instructor about how much time I felt I was flying from the back seat Oh cool... While I am typing this an Osprey just flew over my deck. Talk about big propellers!

[carusoam]

Marauder,

Cover any outside pets! The osprey can carry quite a load of outdoor goldfish.

Best regards,

-a-