Garmin Pilot disappointment

[midlifeflyer]

5 hours ago, PeteMc said:

So with the iPad in Horizontal View, you can do a split screen and keep the map on one side and the chart on the other?  I've been tell FF they should do that for years!  

Side by side horizontal. Up and down vertical. And not only the chart. Garmin’s split screen can handle a multitude of functions. (see pic). An interesting one is widgets where you can display airport information. It’s even location  sensitive. It’s a very elegant implementation of the concept 

Must be 10 years ago when my club had a presentation by Tyson.  I ask that question. He asked me why and I said one reason was the ability to display the approach plate at the same time as the map. He replied, “I think we have a better idea for that coming along soon.” Turned out he was referring to plates over maps, which was still in development.

Basically, FF chose to dedicate split screen to the SVT functionality. 

 

[PeteMc]

4 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

Turned out he was referring to plates over maps, which was still in development.

I actually do not like the plate over the map, well maybe I "hate" it is a better statement. 

And I don't know how many actual FF folks fly Mooneys, but if any of your are here, DO take note of the side-by-side that Pilot has.  I know I've suggested years ago and I'm sure others have too.  

 

[midlifeflyer]

53 minutes ago, PeteMc said:

I actually do not like the plate over the map, well maybe I "hate" it is a better statement. 

Not that uncommon to not like it. The theory is to be able to see weather and traffic at the same time. I use the feature but turn up the opacity of the plate. OTOH, when using Dynamic Procedures, I hide the plate  altogether. 

[Max Clark]

On 12/16/2025 at 11:35 AM, midlifeflyer said:

? The only G3X IFR limitations I know of are:

1. stand-by instruments are required for attitude, altitude and airspeed, which is pretty common, and
2. its internal GPS is not certified for IFR use and requires an external navigator (you have a GTN), which pretty much gives it a leg up on many other PFDs which don't even have that backup capability. 

Is the M20R G3X AFMS materially different from the standard one?

You cannot select or load procedures on the G3x w/ internal GPS selected

With external GPS you can view the GTN flight plan but you cannot create, edit, load/activate a procedure on it, etc...

You can pull up a chart (approach plate, airport, etc...), but you don't get your position on it

[midlifeflyer]

14 hours ago, Max Clark said:

You cannot select or load procedures on the G3x w/ internal GPS selected

With external GPS you can view the GTN flight plan but you cannot create, edit, load/activate a procedure on it, etc...

You can pull up a chart (approach plate, airport, etc...), but you don't get your position on it

I’m surprised by the third. Pretty sure the G3X charts are georeferenced and display position.

Not surprised by the other two. Although it would be nice to be able to load an approach directly in the G3X in the off-case case of an emergency where everything works except the external navigator, I can see a reason for the lack of an instrument approach database in a VFR-only unit. Kinda part of #2 above. 

The view-only nature of the G3X flight plan display is, I think, a Garmin thing that appears in other combined PFD/MFD units. They don’t control the external navigator.

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, midlifeflyer said:

The view-only nature of the G3X flight plan display is, I think, a Garmin thing that appears in other combined PFD/MFD units. They don’t control the external navigator.

When I first started looking at airplanes, I was interested in one with a G500, so I did some reading.  It began to make more sense when I started thinking of the G500 as just a large screen to display things coming from other places in the panel.  One Mooney I liked had two 430s and a G500.  The screens on the 430s are tiny, but it didn't matter because you could see their info displayed on the "big screen".  Not sure what the latest version of the G500 can do, but the old one didn't have a lot of capability on its own.

[Jackk]

1 hour ago, Fly Boomer said:

When I first started looking at airplanes, I was interested in one with a G500, so I did some reading.  It began to make more sense when I started thinking of the G500 as just a large screen to display things coming from other places in the panel.  One Mooney I liked had two 430s and a G500.  The screens on the 430s are tiny, but it didn't matter because you could see their info displayed on the "big screen".  Not sure what the latest version of the G500 can do, but the old one didn't have a lot of capability on its own.

 What were you missing on the 430 screen?

 

 Not like we are streaming Netflix or something on it 

[Max Clark]

2 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

I’m surprised by the third. Pretty sure the G3X charts are georeferenced and display position.

Not surprised by the other two. Although it would be nice to be able to load an approach directly in the G3X in the off-case case of an emergency where everything works except the external navigator, I can see a reason for the lack of an instrument approach database in a VFR-only unit. Kinda part of #2 above. 

The view-only nature of the G3X flight plan display is, I think, a Garmin thing that appears in other combined PFD/MFD units. They don’t control the external navigator.

What's annoying is how the feature difference between the certified & experimental installs of the G3x. Same box, same software, just different options toggled on.

[midlifeflyer]

2 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

When I first started looking at airplanes, I was interested in one with a G500, so I did some reading.  It began to make more sense when I started thinking of the G500 as just a large screen to display things coming from other places in the panel.  One Mooney I liked had two 430s and a G500.  The screens on the 430s are tiny, but it didn't matter because you could see their info displayed on the "big screen".  Not sure what the latest version of the G500 can do, but the old one didn't have a lot of capability on its own.

I think the G500 is pretty much the same. And "large screen to display things coming from other places" a great way of looking at it.

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, Jackk said:

What were you missing on the 430 screen?

Wait a few years, and you will know.

[midlifeflyer]

6 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

When I first started looking at airplanes, I was interested in one with a G500, so I did some reading.  It began to make more sense when I started thinking of the G500 as just a large screen to display things coming from other places in the panel.  One Mooney I liked had two 430s and a G500.  The screens on the 430s are tiny, but it didn't matter because you could see their info displayed on the "big screen".  Not sure what the latest version of the G500 can do, but the old one didn't have a lot of capability on its own.

@Jackk's  question made me think of this. I've seen the GTN 650 flight plan displayed on the G500/600 (emulation; picture). The result is an expanded screen with more of the waypoints displayed vertically and data displayed horizontally, Definitely makes a situational awareness difference. But I've never seen what the 430 displayed on glass looks like. So I wonder ... what does the 430 look like translated to the G500? Does it produce an expanded 430 screen, basically creating a 530-style presentation, or does it also translate it into the more modern Garmin visual interface like the one here? I can kind of see it happening either way.

[PeteMc]

On 12/17/2025 at 10:13 AM, midlifeflyer said:

The theory is to be able to see weather and traffic at the same time.

I figure if I'm still looking at the Wx as I'm switching to the Approach, then something is REALLY wrong.  I suppose if I were flying some sort of heavy metal then it might be a different story.  

Same with Traffic, if it's IMC then I'm not that concerned.  Sure, there is always a chance someone will launch right as I get there.  But then that was always a chance in all the pre TIS-B years too.  And, in theory, if they are scud running in the pattern, I should see them before I switch to the Plates page too. 

With the Dynamic Procedures, totally agree that if I did use the Plate overlay, it would be silly to keep it on with the new DP.  Now if you only knew a big wig at FF and could get them to make the overlay an OPTION!!!! 

 

[midlifeflyer]

On 12/19/2025 at 2:26 AM, PeteMc said:

I figure if I'm still looking at the Wx as I'm switching to the Approach, then something is REALLY wrong.  I suppose if I were flying some sort of heavy metal then it might be a different story.  

Same with Traffic, if it's IMC then I'm not that concerned.  Sure, there is always a chance someone will launch right as I get there.  But then that was always a chance in all the pre TIS-B years too.  And, in theory, if they are scud running in the pattern, I should see them before I switch to the Plates page too. 

With the Dynamic Procedures, totally agree that if I did use the Plate overlay, it would be silly to keep it on with the new DP.  Now if you only knew a big wig at FF and could get them to make the overlay an OPTION!!!! 

 

We all have our preferences. I agree that the automatic loading of Plates over Maps should be an option, even without Dynamic Procedures. Although the second or two to hide or display the plate after it loads isn’t a showstopper for me. Switching back to Pilot, I’ve heard that the most common critical feedback on SmartCharts is the lack of an option to add weather or traffic to the display. 

I agree on traffic … if weather conditions prevent VFR flight, which I’d guess is a tiny percentage of instrument approaches. Pretty sure far more IAPs are performed in VMC or MVFR conditions than down to 800 AGL and below, even if we leave out both primary and recurrent instrument training. 

Weather? Maybe. It was only a few years ago that ATC was vectoring me for an approach in stormy conditions. I liked the ability to have that general movement snapshot subtly displayed. 
 

[Fly Boomer]

20 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

But I've never seen what the 430 displayed on glass looks like.

I don't remember at this point, and apparently didn't save any pictures, but at the time it seemed like a huge improvement over squinting at the 430.

EDIT:  Found a couple of pics.  I had forgotten that the G500 was two screens in the same instrument.

 

[PeteMc]

7 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

Weather? Maybe. It was only a few years ago that ATC was vectoring me for an approach in stormy conditions. I liked the ability to have that general movement snapshot subtly 

Yes, I get that.  But if I'm being Vectored and every thing is set up on the panel, I might still be looking at the Map.  But once I get that "Intercept the ____" and I've decided to continue in on the Approach, that's where I guess I go old school and want to focus on the Approach Plate and the Panel.  But as you said, that's changing with the Dynamic Procedures, especially as they (hopefully) continue to improve upon the DPs. 

[midlifeflyer]

15 hours ago, PeteMc said:

Yes, I get that.  But if I'm being Vectored and every thing is set up on the panel, I might still be looking at the Map.  But once I get that "Intercept the ____" and I've decided to continue in on the Approach, that's where I guess I go old school and want to focus on the Approach Plate and the Panel.  But as you said, that's changing with the Dynamic Procedures, especially as they (hopefully) continue to improve upon the DPs. 

That’s where I think our brains are working differently. Different strokes. Depending on the avionics, once on the approach, even the plate is just a situational awareness tool for me. I may check the next altitude and heading if I’m flying with avionics that don’t display one of them on the flight plan, but that’s about it for detail. So the Map with or without the overlay is useful for me. 

[midlifeflyer]

18 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

I don't remember at this point, and apparently didn't save any pictures, but at the time it seemed like a huge improvement over squinting at the 430.

EDIT:  Found a couple of pics.  I had forgotten that the G500 was two screens in the same instrument.

Yes, for the Map, definitely. For my question, was thinking in terms of the flight plan rendering rather than the MAP. EFBs are for maps  I don’t even display the map on a larger 530 or 750, let alone a 430 or 650.

 

[PeteMc]

On 12/20/2025 at 3:13 AM, midlifeflyer said:

I may check the next altitude and heading if I’m flying with avionics that don’t display one of them on the flight plan, but that’s about it for detail.

No, I don't think it's different strokes.  Pretty much what I'm saying too.  I just want the plate there so there are no "Ummm... is that right?"  The Plate page shows me where I'm going and it should just be a reference.  But if something glitches or just seem off on the Nav gear, there's no futzing around with the getting the overlay more readable, it is just THERE.  But then we also both agree, that was then, and now we're looking at the DP and hoping it keeps improving!

 

[Jackk]

Just curious how many of you have the iPad on for the approach?

 

 I just brief the box, let course, kind, etc and then turn the screen off and stow it, really you shouldn’t need it for much else at that point 

 

 For a 3hr flight the screen is on maybe 10-15min

[midlifeflyer]

1 hour ago, Jackk said:

Just curious how many of you have the iPad on for the approach?

 

 I just brief the box, let course, kind, etc and then turn the screen off and stow it, really you shouldn’t need it for much else at that point 

 

 For a 3hr flight the screen is on maybe 10-15min

I will switch the screen off often enroute to save battery and lessen the heat. But it's on in the approach environment for several reasons, which may depend on what equipment I'm flying. Here's a few. YMMV.

1. I don't attempt to memorize the approach, so it's a bit of a security blanket whether I actually need it or not. 
2. It's my moving map display.
3. I want to see traffic.
4. I can pop in a "direct" to the airport and get an instantaneous distance read out for traffic calls while leaving the real flight plan intact.
5. I think it's important to see the airport diagram appear after landing. 
6. I was doing the same thing with approach charts when I was using paper and see no reason to change a 30+ year old SOP. 
7. It takes more effort to remove it from it's cradle and stow it than to leave it alone.

[McMooney]

1 hour ago, Jackk said:

Just curious how many of you have the iPad on for the approach?

 

 I just brief the box, let course, kind, etc and then turn the screen off and stow it, really you shouldn’t need it for much else at that point 

 

 For a 3hr flight the screen is on maybe 10-15min

Hmm, that's about when I find it most useful.   Georeferenced approach plates are awesome.  I find smart charts to be okay, bit more useful for arrival and departure procedures.  Nothing wrong with them but the standard approach plate has everything on one screen.  

[Jackk]

54 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

I will switch the screen off often enroute to save battery and lessen the heat. But it's on in the approach environment for several reasons, which may depend on what equipment I'm flying. Here's a few. YMMV.

1. I don't attempt to memorize the approach, so it's a bit of a security blanket whether I actually need it or not. 
2. It's my moving map display.
3. I want to see traffic.
4. I can pop in a "direct" to the airport and get an instantaneous distance read out for traffic calls while leaving the real flight plan intact.
5. I think it's important to see the airport diagram appear after landing. 
6. I was doing the same thing with approach charts when I was using paper and see no reason to change a 30+ year old SOP. 
7. It takes more effort to remove it from its cradle and stow it than to leave it alone.

If you’re flying any quasi modern GPS, if you briefed the box, everything you need should be in the box.

 

 Why do you need a moving map

 

You’re ether IFR and it’s on ATC, or use the windows 

 

Please do not use a iPad for primary nav

 

I agree on the diagram, I do that too, good to brief turn off and stuff on TOD too 

 

to each their own 

 

I don’t use the cradle, but if my professional flying when I was flying stuff that had a mount I had it off, everything I needed was already briefed and in the box

 I find myself using foreflight on my phone more than my iPad now, easier to just whip it out, check weather, brief a plate, etc, then it goes back in my pocket 

Edited 15 hours ago by Jackk

[midlifeflyer]

23 minutes ago, Jackk said:

 

Please do not use a iPad for primary nav

***

to each their own 

 

 

I would never even think of using an iPad for primary navigation absent an emergency. 
 

yes, to each their own preferences.

[Jackk]

13 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

I would never even think of using an iPad for primary navigation absent an emergency. 
 

yes, to each their own preferences.

 Just curious what avionics are you flying?

 

 A good amount of my FOs, well brief the approach, I have PF brief the box and PM follow along on the iPad.

 

 I’ll ask something like “set missed altitude” and some will reach for their iPad… uhh, why did we brief this thing if you can just look at the FMS (or GPS) and pull it from there 

 

 even if flying a 430 that doesn’t have altitudes for whatever reason, with steam, I’ll jot down mins, missed altitude, tower, ground, and direction of my turn off for taxi.    That’s that for the iPad till taxi or Netflix time 

[LANCECASPER]

3 hours ago, Jackk said:

Just curious how many of you have the iPad on for the approach?

 

 I just brief the box, let course, kind, etc and then turn the screen off and stow it, really you shouldn’t need it for much else at that point 

 

 For a 3hr flight the screen is on maybe 10-15min

When you were flying with paper approach plates did you stow the plate during the approach??