Is TKS fluid including in the empty weight and balance

[amekler]

I have a 2000 Bravo with non-FIKI TKS. Is the weight and balance include full TKS or do I have to add that in?

Alan

 N9127M

[Fritz1]

The equipment list in your POH should tell how much fluid was in the TKS tank when weighed. My Bravo has 856 lb UL with the TKS tank full, goes to 916 with the TKS tank near empty and to 946 when I take the rear seats out. The TKS system full clocks in at about 110lb. UL is the weak spot of the Bravo, think there are two or three with TKS and AC, over gross with full tanks when the pilot gets in.

[Rick Junkin]

@amekler You should be able to look in Section VI of your POH and see how they recorded the W&B info for your TKS system. Here's an excerpt from a generic POH 3502H that shows the TKS system and the TKS fluid listed separately on the equipment list but it would appear the fluid could be included in the basic weight of the airplane. Take look at yours and see if the TKS Fluid line is marked as "installed".

My '89 TLS/Bravo was modified in 1996 to add the inadvertent TKS system and the installer calculated the new weight and balance with the TKS tank full.

When I bought it in 2016 I emailed CAV and they said the W&B should be calculated with an empty TKS tank, so I had the W&B redone. Makes sense, I treat the TKS fluid like I do fuel for W&B purposes. But I had the W&B documentation the installer produced in 1996 when the system was installed to get all the accurate configuration and weights from. 

With that, after upgrading the panel and re-weighing the airplane I was able to remove all 19# of Charlie weight ballast and my basic empty weight is down to 2386# for a useful load up to 1012# with the rear seats (another 30#) removed. I try to keep a little less than 2 gallons of TKS fluid in the tank for the monthly system runs, so I end up with a nominal 994# as my useful load.

I hope this helps.

Cheers,
Junkman

 

 

[amekler]

thanks rick I'll take a look.

regards,

 Alan

[Fly Boomer]

13 hours ago, Rick Junkin said:

With that, after upgrading the panel and re-weighing the airplane I was able to remove all 19# of Charlie weight ballast and my basic empty weight is down to 2386# for a useful load up to 1012# with the rear seats (another 30#) removed.

Do you know if the airplane came from the factory with all three Charlie weights?

[Rick Junkin]

7 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

Do you know if the airplane came from the factory with all three Charlie weights?

I don't recall off hand, I'll take a look at the original equipment list the next time I'm at the hangar.

Cheers,
Junkman

[Fly Boomer]

Just now, Rick Junkin said:

I don't recall off hand, I'll take a look at the original equipment list the next time I'm at the hangar.

Cheers,
Junkman

Thanks.

[Rick Junkin]

On 4/4/2024 at 11:23 AM, Fly Boomer said:

Do you know if the airplane came from the factory with all three Charlie weights?

Yes, the three Charlie weights (19.7#) were in the airplane when it came from the factory.

Cheers,
Junkman

[LANCECASPER]

45 minutes ago, Rick Junkin said:

Yes, the three Charlie weights (19.7#) were in the airplane when it came from the factory.

Cheers,
Junkman

With the weight you removed in your panel upgrade, etc toward the front of the airplane, I wonder if at least one of those could be removed.

[Rick Junkin]

1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

With the weight you removed in your panel upgrade, etc toward the front of the airplane, I wonder if at least one of those could be removed.

Yup, I was able to take all three out.

[amekler]

On 4/3/2024 at 9:35 PM, Rick Junkin said:

@amekler You should be able to look in Section VI of your POH and see how they recorded the W&B info for your TKS system. Here's an excerpt from a generic POH 3502H that shows the TKS system and the TKS fluid listed separately on the equipment list but it would appear the fluid could be included in the basic weight of the airplane. Take look at yours and see if the TKS Fluid line is marked as "installed".

My '89 TLS/Bravo was modified in 1996 to add the inadvertent TKS system and the installer calculated the new weight and balance with the TKS tank full.

When I bought it in 2016 I emailed CAV and they said the W&B should be calculated with an empty TKS tank, so I had the W&B redone. Makes sense, I treat the TKS fluid like I do fuel for W&B purposes. But I had the W&B documentation the installer produced in 1996 when the system was installed to get all the accurate configuration and weights from. 

With that, after upgrading the panel and re-weighing the airplane I was able to remove all 19# of Charlie weight ballast and my basic empty weight is down to 2386# for a useful load up to 1012# with the rear seats (another 30#) removed. I try to keep a little less than 2 gallons of TKS fluid in the tank for the monthly system runs, so I end up with a nominal 994# as my useful load.

I hope this helps.

Cheers,
Junkman

 

 

rick,

my Poh just has tks system 111 lbs no breakdown showing tks fluid.

Alan

[midlifeflyer]

I can't imagine a wide variable item like TKS fluid would be included in an aircraft empty weight unless there was a minimum amount that was permanently there, like unusuable fuel.  Even "drainable oil" is sometimes deducted. 

If this airplane is different, I would expect it to be noted in the definitions of Weight & Balance terms in Section 1 of the POH. 

[amekler]

I dug deeper and found 6 gallons of tks were included in my empty weight calculation!

alan

[Fly Boomer]

15 minutes ago, amekler said:

I dug deeper and found 6 gallons of tks were included in my empty weight calculation!

alan

Wow!  That's like 50 pounds or thereabouts.

[amekler]

55.2 lbs to be exact!

Alan