Bravos with TKS FIKI vs Non-FIKI

[NickG]

I am in the market for a Bravo and noticed one that had TKS (which I want) but was placarded as not certified for flight into known icing... I'm assuming this system was not original equipment. What's the difference between the two TKS systems (if any)? Did Mooney offer an inadvertent icing system vs FIKI as an option?

Any info would be appreciated.

[Rmnpilot]

I own a 1994 Bravo with TKS.   It’s non FIKI.  So the differences are the panel style and the number of main pumps.     Mine has one pump and I was told my panels don’t come as far down on the tail.  My tank is the same capacity, all the tubing is the same, I just don’t have the second pump or panel coverage.    I live in the Upper Midwest and don’t fly in freezing rain or crap weather regardless.  In my opinion the systems ,regardless of FIKi or non FIKI, use TKS fluid to get out of the icing not to hang out in the stuff. 

[Fly Boomer]

7 minutes ago, NickG said:

I am in the market for a Bravo and noticed one that had TKS (which I want) but was placarded as not certified for flight into known icing... I'm assuming this system was not original equipment. What's the difference between the two TKS systems (if any)? Did Mooney offer an inadvertent icing system vs FIKI as an option?

Any info would be appreciated.

You will probably get conflicting answers, but the primary difference is that FIKI has dual pumps.  Same weeping panels, etc.  If you drive into severe icing and lose your pump in an inadvertent ice system, you are in trouble.

[NickG]

26 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

You will probably get conflicting answers, but the primary difference is that FIKI has dual pumps.  Same weeping panels, etc.  If you drive into severe icing and lose your pump in an inadvertent ice system, you are in trouble.

Ah.. makes sense.. did they offer this as an option?

[Fly Boomer]

46 minutes ago, NickG said:

Ah.. makes sense.. did they offer this as an option?

I don't really know for sure, but if I were to guess, I would say the inadvertent systems are likely aftermarket.

[Fritz1]

I asked the same question before I bought the Bravo 6 years ago. The Fiki system has dual pumps and a heated stall vane, the number of wing panels is different, the flow rate is the same. I called CAV and asked them if you could upgrade a non FIKI system, the answer is yes but it costs as much as a new installation, thus around $70k I think. I have the FIKI system and am quite happy with it, CAV has good support, the only maintenance item was a filter change. When I bought the aircraft the wing panels had a couple of dead spots and it took me quite a while running the system on the ground and squeezing TKS fluid into the dead spots with a sponge to to get rid of them. The system is quite powerful and very reliable with the dual pumps and gets rid of moderate icing reliably. Its biggest limitation is the run time of 150 / 75 min low/ high. Typically the system is used for 5-10 min to climb or descend through an icing layer. Does one have to have the FIKI system or is the non FIKI system good enough. It depends on the mission.

[larryb]

The panels and pumps are different as already mentioned. When I was shopping for my own TKS Mooney I wanted FIKI only. I figured if I was paying to own and maintain it, it may as well be full FIKI. I rejected a couple candidates that were not FIKI.

[Patrick Horan]

I just purchased a bravo with FIKI tks. The dual redundancy in my opinion is a must. Plus if I'm taking the weight/speed penalty and having to maintain it. I might aswell have the complete package.

[LANCECASPER]

16 hours ago, NickG said:

I am in the market for a Bravo and noticed one that had TKS (which I want) but was placarded as not certified for flight into known icing... I'm assuming this system was not original equipment. What's the difference between the two TKS systems (if any)? Did Mooney offer an inadvertent icing system vs FIKI as an option?

Any info would be appreciated.

Yes they did. If I remember correctly, when it came it out, around 1996, the difference between inadvertent and FIKI was about $10,000. Back then if memory serves correctly FIKI was it the $40,000 range≥

[NickG]

1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

Yes they did. If I remember correctly, when it came it out, around 1996, the difference between inadvertent and FIKI was about $10,000. Back then if memory serves correctly FIKI was it the $40,000 range≥

40K… lol…how times change!

[CAV Ice]

@NickG I sent you a PM.  Feel free to reach out with any questions. 

[NickG]

1 hour ago, CAV Ice said:

@NickG I sent you a PM.  Feel free to reach out with any questions. 

Thanks! Just did.

[Jetpilot86]

About the only thing I wish I had on my Bravo, and don’t, is TKS. 

[Little Dipper]

On 2/23/2024 at 8:19 AM, LANCECASPER said:

Yes they did. If I remember correctly, when it came it out, around 1996, the difference between inadvertent and FIKI was about $10,000. Back then if memory serves correctly FIKI was it the $40,000 range≥

FikI installed in an Ovation by Mooney at the factory in Texas was a bit over 50K in 1997

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, Little Dipper said:

FikI installed in an Ovation by Mooney at the factory in Texas was a bit over 50K in 1997

In a February 1996 article it’s mentioned at that time that FIKI TKS was “about $35,000”. But it did rise in price significantly since there was a lot of labor involved. 

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/1996/february/pilot/the-mooney-ovation-at-two

 

By 2001 it had risen to $48,250.

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2001/july/pilot/new-mooney-eagle2

[Jetpilot86]

DMax quoted me $85 k last week. 

[NickG]

1 hour ago, Jetpilot86 said:

DMax quoted me $85 k last week. 

CAV quoted me 60k about 2 weeks ago.

[Jetpilot86]

1 hour ago, NickG said:

CAV quoted me 60k about 2 weeks ago.

IIRC, Paul was probably estimating what CAV would charge.  Good to know there is a better and more direct quote.