Carburetor replacement

[Carmen allocco]

I would like to hear your comments please. My C model Mooney needed a carburetor so the a&p ordered it from aircraft spruce. The old carburetor was removed and replaced with the rebuilt carburetor. We flew the aircraft and discovered it was defective. Got an RMA from aircraft spruce mailed it to them and waited, five weeks later many emails phone calls finally it was determined to be defective. Another rebuild carburetor was sent to the a@p and second install at a cost of $1000 now out $2000 spend on labor alone. Question is who should be responsible for the labor charges? The a@p had to do his work twice, not his fault . Air craft spruce says their policy is to replace the part only. The supplier to aircraft spruce same answer. My point is I don’t tell aircraft spruce where to buy or source their parts or repairs so, if the part is defective it is their responsibility to cover the part and the cost to remove and install the second time. Why in the world should the consumer be responsible for labor twice because they chose to send a defective part. You would think that these parts like carburetors are tested. After all it’s just an aircraft. 
Just new at this been around for more than half a century and puzzled again. Thanks just venting. One thing for sure aircraft spruce will not get any more of my money and I’m passing the word. Thanks guys and gals 

carmen

[PT20J]

28 minutes ago, Carmen allocco said:

I would like to hear your comments please. My C model Mooney needed a carburetor so the a&p ordered it from aircraft spruce. The old carburetor was removed and replaced with the rebuilt carburetor. We flew the aircraft and discovered it was defective. Got an RMA from aircraft spruce mailed it to them and waited, five weeks later many emails phone calls finally it was determined to be defective. Another rebuild carburetor was sent to the a@p and second install at a cost of $1000 now out $2000 spend on labor alone. Question is who should be responsible for the labor charges? The a@p had to do his work twice, not his fault . Air craft spruce says their policy is to replace the part only. The supplier to aircraft spruce same answer. My point is I don’t tell aircraft spruce where to buy or source their parts or repairs so, if the part is defective it is their responsibility to cover the part and the cost to remove and install the second time. Why in the world should the consumer be responsible for labor twice because they chose to send a defective part. You would think that these parts like carburetors are tested. After all it’s just an aircraft. 
Just new at this been around for more than half a century and puzzled again. Thanks just venting. One thing for sure aircraft spruce will not get any more of my money and I’m passing the word. Thanks guys and gals 

carmen

Sorry to hear about your unfortunate experience.

Most warranties for parts expressly do not include labor. It's not just aviation parts. Read the warranty on house paint. If defective, the company will replace the paint, but the labor is on you. Sometimes manufacturers offer a labor allowance, but I've mostly seen this when I buy something new from the manufacturer. I've had Garmin pick up the labor on a defective transponder, and auto manufacturers generally don't charge for labor for warranty repairs on new cars. 

I'm curious though why it would cost $1000 to R&R a carburetor. That's probably a full day. 

This example illustrates why it is a good idea to have your mechanic buy the parts. Then you could say to him, "Hey, you bought the part, not me. It's not my fault you bought a bad part and you should give me a break on the labor." But, if you supply the part, the mechanic gets to say, "Hey, you bought the part, not me. It's not my fault you bought a bad part, so why should I work for free to replace it."

But, if you do buy the parts, it is a good idea to check the terms and conditions from the seller so you understand your risk. Aircraft Spruce pretty clearly states its policy on its website:

Merchandise experiencing technical issues or are assumed defective:
Apply to manufacturer's warranty policy.
Must be sent to manufacturer for evaluation for repair or replacement as per the manufacturer's warranty policy.
If you need information about the manufacturer's warranty policy or contact information, please contact our customer service team.
Aircraft Spruce's obligation is limited to repair or replacement of the purchased product only, and under no circumstances shall Aircraft Spruce be liable for any loss, damage, injury, cost of repair or consequential damages of any kind in connection with the sale, use, or repair of any product purchased from Aircraft Spruce.

Skip

[C.J.]

1 hour ago, Carmen allocco said:

I would like to hear your comments please.

Sorry about your bad luck, but Aircraft Spruce's warranty seems fairly standard.

I just had my carb overhauled by D&G.   About Us | D & G Supply (dgsupply.com)   Check D & G Warranty below for comparison:

D & G Supply warrants that all units repaired, overhauled or exchanged by D & G Supply shall be free from defects in material and workmanship when subjected to normal use and service for three hundred, sixty (360) calendar days from shipment or three hundred hours (300) of aircraft operation after installation, whichever occurs first, if the following conditions are met:

• The requirements of the "Warranty Procedure" involving the warranty registration card have been followed after installation of the unit.
• The unit, warranty claim and the owner's portion of the warranty registration card have been returned to D & G Supply within thirty (30) days of the product failure date.
• The unit must be "as removed" and not disassembled, repaired or altered. This expressly includes the breaking or removing of any lock wire or similar locking features.
• The unit shall not have been subject to misuse, accident, or improper storage, handling, operation or installation unless written proof is submitted to the satisfaction of D & G Supply that such abuse was not a cause of the claimed defect.

Units that are only functionally tested and/or time recertified by D & G Supply are not covered by this warranty.

This warranty covers only component parts replaced and/or functions of the unit repaired by D & G Supply.

Labor required for removal, reinstallation, aircraft down time and other related charges are the sole responsibility of the customer.

All shipping charges, custom duties, taxes, tariffs, or other related charges for the returned unit will be the sole responsibility of the customer. All shipments should be insured for replacement value. Proper packaging technique must be followed or the warranty may be voided.

[Walk]

New question along the same vein: I recently purchased my first aircraft, a 1974 Mooney M20C N7764M, and after gaining some time in the aircraft I’m noticing a hesitation while advancing the throttle at two different stages.

Hesitation number one happens right before firewall on take off. RPM’s gain speed, hit the red line and fall back. Is this a feature to prevent over speed or some kind of an issue?

Hesitation number two I’m more worried about. It happens when I advance throttle for a go-around or touch-and-go somewhere in the vicinity of 55-60% throttle application. It’s a solid cough and it’s pretty consistent in that phase of flight (low power setting, with airspeed, while advancing throttle).

An A&P friend of mine who admits to having most his experience in fuel injected models thinks I may need to overhaul or replace the carb which, as far as I can tell hasn’t been touched in it’s lifespan.

Any ideas? Thanks for your help!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GeeBee]

Most carb'd Lycomings will give a cough if you ram the throttle for a go-around. As near as I can tell, it is the lag in the accelerator pump. Had a lot of them stop my heart for a beat, but never had one spit out the bit.

As to paying again for installation. Welcome to aviation. While it seems perverse, having worked in auto parts I can tell you the auto shop may cover the labor to replace a defective part they installed, I can also tell you they make between 25 and 50% on the part they sold you. The price you see at say O'Reilly's is retail-retail which is what the auto shop charges you,  trade prices are not shown. There are no such margins in aviation. Aircraft Spruce usually gives 10% to the trade for some but not all items. I recently paid for the installation and removal and are-installation of an alternator after only 100 hours of service. Hartzell/Plane Power sent me a replacement, which I promptly sold but all the labor was on me.  

[jetdriven]

Aircraft Spruce will typically give you between zero and 5% off of a part. And then you may mark it up 20% but that’s  nothing like an auto shop’s margins.  
It’s really important to get the idle speed and mixture set up properly on these things. Most of the ones we see are far too rich, and  the thing loads up all the way down final and then you firewall to go around it’s full of fuel. It has to clear out before it can make real power. If it’s leaned properly, you have nice smooth acceleration. So I would look there first.

[N201MKTurbo]

It sounds like the accelerator pump isn’t working. You can probably use a mirror to check it out after you remove the cowling.

[N201MKTurbo]

My old Cessna has a similar carb. It was cranky. I had it off about 4 times. It is working great now. The parts for the carbs are reasonably priced and available. Nobody seems interested in fixing them these days. They aren’t that complicated.

By the way, if I could get $1000 to R&R a carb, I would quit my day job. It is a PITA, but still a couple of hours start to finish. Does that shop charge $500/hr?

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

My old Cessna has a similar carb. It was cranky. I had it off about 4 times. It is working great now. The parts for the carbs are reasonably priced and available. Nobody seems interested in fixing them these days. They aren’t that complicated.

By the way, if I could get $1000 to R&R a carb, I would quit my day job. It is a PITA, but still a couple of hours start to finish. Does that shop charge $500/hr?

No, but all the A&Ps have nice trucks! 

[Fly Boomer]

2 hours ago, GeeBee said:

Had a lot of them stop my heart for a beat, but never had one spit out the bit.

That gave me a chuckle.

[cliffy]

ALL A&Ps also learned how to disassemble, repair and reassemble carbs in school

but today almost none of them even think of working on one. 

Years ago when the two piece venturi was AD'd out of existence many were changed

by A&Ps in the field to the one piece venturi but not today.

And it doesn't matter what field we are talking about- cars, boats or planes. 

Most mechanics today only do the parts cannon approach and not real trouble shooting

and repair.