Hobbs Meter off

[Sue Bon]

6 hours ago, Pinecone said:

Most planes I have flown (piston) have a Hobbs activated by engine oil pressure.

In the USAF and Gliders, take off and touchdown times were logged.

In my plane, I use the automatic timer in my GTN-650 which counts time from power on (right after engine start) to the when I shut the avionics switch off.

Is that what you use for your maintenance checks? Or do you only have an annual inspection, so engine/flight time is irrelevant? If I used the time my engine was running on the ground, my plane would be in the shop every couple of months instead of twice per year.

I was comparing notes with @neilpilot when he was here. I don't think you guys have a 50-hour check, and if I remember correctly, he mentioned the annual check, which doesn't seem to be related to number of hours flown.

[Fly Boomer]

2 hours ago, Sue Bon said:

Is that what you use for your maintenance checks? Or do you only have an annual inspection, so engine/flight time is irrelevant? If I used the time my engine was running on the ground, my plane would be in the shop every couple of months instead of twice per year.

I was comparing notes with @neilpilot when he was here. I don't think you guys have a 50-hour check, and if I remember correctly, he mentioned the annual check, which doesn't seem to be related to number of hours flown.

I am not @Pinecone but for most 14 CFR Part 91 flying (just for fun) only the annual inspection is required.  When flying for "compensation or hire", 100-hour inspections are required.  As far as I know, the inspection is the same -- only the interval is different.

[N201MKTurbo]

I was talking to a principal inspector a while back. He said it is foolish to do 100 hour inspections. If your operation requires 100 hour inspection, do an annual every 100 hours. He said 100 hour inspection doesn’t count as an annual, but an annual inspection counts as a 100 hour inspection. He said you can do an annual inspection any time you like, you don’t have to wait a year.

[Pinecone]

I use Hobbs time for my log book.

I use Tach Time for oil changes.   That is more indicative of the wear and tear on the engine and oil, as it is based on engine revolutions.  And if I cruise at lower than 2500 RPM, then the Tach is counting slower than the Hobbes time.  So even better.

[Fly Boomer]

11 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I was talking to a principal inspector a while back. He said it is foolish to do 100 hour inspections. If your operation requires 100 hour inspection, do an annual every 100 hours. He said 100 hour inspection doesn’t count as an annual, but an annual inspection counts as a 100 hour inspection. He said you can do an annual inspection any time you like, you don’t have to wait a year.

The "50-Hour/100-Hour/Annual Maintenance Inspection Guide" provided by Mooney suggests that, from the factory perspective, the inspections are the same.  The FAA may have other ideas.

[N201MKTurbo]

13 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

The "50-Hour/100-Hour/Annual Maintenance Inspection Guide" provided by Mooney suggests that, from the factory perspective, the inspections are the same.  The FAA may have other ideas.

That’s the point. If they are the same, call them all annuals. The regulations require at least one annual per year. If you are doing 100 hour inspections, they don’t count as annual inspections. There is no regulation that prohibits doing an annual inspection every 100 hours. The only difference is the words you put in the logbook.

[Sue Bon]

2 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I was talking to a principal inspector a while back. He said it is foolish to do 100 hour inspections. If your operation requires 100 hour inspection, do an annual every 100 hours. He said 100 hour inspection doesn’t count as an annual, but an annual inspection counts as a 100 hour inspection. He said you can do an annual inspection any time you like, you don’t have to wait a year.

For us, 50-hour, 100-hour and annuals are required. The 50-hour is oil change and small stuff. (Remember that we're not even allowed to change our own oil). The 100-hour is more and the annual is even more. Basically everyone I know does the 100-hour and annual together. If you fly less than 50h per year, it's the one check counted as 100h and annual. If you fly 50-100h per year, then it's two checks: 50h plus the 100 and annual, done together.

Then we also have a yearly airworthiness check from the Swiss FAA (called BAZL or FOCA, depending on your language)....

So expensive  

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

That’s the point. If they are the same, call them all annuals. The regulations require at least one annual per year. If you are doing 100 hour inspections, they don’t count as annual inspections. There is no regulation that prohibits doing an annual inspection every 100 hours. The only difference is the words you put in the logbook.

The only other difference is that an IA isn't required to do a 100-hour inspection.  So if an IA isn't available but an A&P is, you can get a required 100-hour done if needed.

But if an IA is available, there's no reason to not make a 100-hour inspection an annual since the inspections are the same.

For my last annual an IA suggested I do and log a 100-hour inspection (since I'm an A&P), which would indicate that I did all the work stuff, and then an IA could sign off the "inspection" part, which can't be delegated.   

[Fly Boomer]

4 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

That’s the point. If they are the same, call them all annuals. The regulations require at least one annual per year. If you are doing 100 hour inspections, they don’t count as annual inspections. There is no regulation that prohibits doing an annual inspection every 100 hours. The only difference is the words you put in the logbook.

I think I caught up -- just do an annual every 100 hours if that's a requirement for you.

[tmo]

5 hours ago, Sue Bon said:

Remember that we're not even allowed to change our own oil

I am pretty sure that is no longer the case for EASA registered planes operated privately. You might want to ask around on EuroGA and/or reach out to Malte Höltken from Aufwind in Germany if you are interested in the actual extent of pilot-owner privileges on EASA planes. I don't follow that too closely as my plane is N-reg.

[Pinecone]

The nice thing about doing your 100 as an annual is, you don't have to worry about going out of annual because you could not get it in a shop in time

[A64Pilot]

As an IA I can tell you that an Annual and a 100 hour are in writing the same.

But in reality they often aren’t. The reason is because when I do a 100 hour I’m signing it off as an A&P and the FAA expectation is an A&P level of knowledge etc.

An Annual I’m signing it off as an I/A and the level of or quality of inspection expectation is different, and therefore I really pay more attention to the “paperwork” as in AD’s etc on an Annual. I spend more time on an annual researching.

Think of an A&P as a Private Pilot and an I/A  a Commercial pilot, both of course can fly our aircraft, but make a mistake and the FAA frankly will hold a Commercial Pilot to a different set of standards, and they should. Same for an IA.

So while on paper a 100 Hr and an Annual are the same, it’s not unusual for an Annual in actuality to be a deeper look than a 100 Hr, you should be getting a more in depth inspection and most likely an Annual will cost more because there are more hours in it.

For most it’s a mute point, because 100 hour inspections are rare, and average private use GA airplane doesn’t fly more than 100 hours a year anyway.

An A&P is responsible for their work from the time they perform it until the end of time, even scrapping the aircraft doesn’t always end liability because parts are often re-used.

An IA performing an Annual is responsible for the aircraft from the day it got its Airworthiness Certificate until the day they sign off the Annual, but not a day thereafter.

An IA is of course an A&P as well, just pointing out the actual difference. a 100 hour I’m not attesting to all previous work that has been done to the aircraft, an Annual I am.

So in my opinion an Annual is a more comprehensive and in depth inspection in reality than a 100 hour is, and you may pay more for one.

The having to research back until the day the aircraft was manufactured is very time consuming and why if you bounce around from one IA to another your Annuals will be expensive.

But if I did the Annual last year I don’t have to research the last 50 years or however old the aircraft is, just the last year so a second and each subsequent Annual ought to be significantly less expensive than the first one was.

An owner can request an Annual any time they desire, there is no upper limit ad to how many Annuals can be done per year, I’ve even heard of a couple of older retired IA’s accomplishing an Annual every 90 days on their airplane to maintain the required currency to keep their IA.