Ovation Ultra Questions from a Newbie

[Canadian Gal]

Just joined today, been reading here for a while though.

The Ovation ultra has my interest, and looks like what I want.

How is the C of G in it?

Two people up front and nobody in the back an issue?

One light person, me, and a bunch of luggage in the back an issue?

Parts availability since it seems only a handful were built before Mooney closed their doors again?

Operating out of short strips, off grass, occasionally gravel, can the Mooney take it?

Short runways are normal for me, it feels weird flying into places with those giant runways.

I really don't understand why Mooney is not the most lucrative GA plane builder ever, they seem like sweet machines that dreams are made of.

How difficult is it to learn all glass, when the past experience was all old school vacuum gauges?

Thanks, Pam

 

Ps. A huge thanks to Craig for your quick response to my email when I was having difficulty registering.

 

 

[Brandt]

I have an Acclaim Ultra.  C of G has never been a problem. Short strips aren’t a problem.  I wouldn’t fly off of gravel or grass. Plane is too low to the ground and the gear design is not rough field friendly.  Parts are available.  Mooney is open and making parts.  Sometimes a little slow, but who is lt these days.  

[jlunseth]

I have made a bunch of landings and takeoffs on grass in my 231 but don’t anymore. After awhile the novelty wears off. I was impressed by the quality of the grass fields I landed on here in MN, they were well maintained and no gopher holes, but there is not much prop clearance. 

Yes, it is a dream plane, very fast and relative to other aircraft it sips fuel. Like mine, for sure.

[Canadian Gal]

Thanks guys.

The grass strip I go into regularly is actually in real nice shape.

Appreciate your help immensely.

[Alan Maurer]

Hi Pam,Ovation is a fantastic plane but needs to be flown by the numbers. For light people two in front and two more in the rear works and not out of CG. You can always leave out some fuel.Mooney fuel tanks are large. Glass is a bit daunting at first, but a few hours with an instructor really helps and once learned it is quite easy. Mooneys were never really intended for short runways in my opinion. Approach speed works at exactly 75 knots and still likes to float a bit so patience on landing works. it cannot be forced onto the runway. Sad that Mooney is not building airplanes but Cirrus has a better useful load and a parachute. Mooneys don't have lots of ground clearance so I stay away from any soft runway. That said, the Ovation is a rugged, well built airplane and... it is very fast. really fast.What's not to love.

So much fun to fly.

Alan

Ovation 2GX

[Canadian Gal]

I looked into Cirrus planes, which steered me away from them.

I also rarely fly high, and if I do it's just to cross some mountains, so not sustained high altitude use. Neither my passengers, nor I find it comfortable, so no need for a turbo. 

Must say that I rather enjoy just shoving the throttle to the firewall,  and leaving it there until its time to descend.

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Canadian Gal

[aviatoreb]

6 hours ago, Canadian Gal said:

Thanks guys.

The grass strip I go into regularly is actually in real nice shape.

Appreciate your help immensely.

You can operate out of grass - many do.  Just keep in mind that good grass strips and crappy grass strips are a different thing.  And muddy conditions ....  Anyway keep an eye out for ruts divits and holes and bouncing that are a prop strike danger if you are on a crummy grass strip.  Also, transitioning from the grass to pavement could involve a big pavement lip to watch out for - this is advice for any airplane but the mooney is a bit lower slung than many.

[Fly Boomer]

10 hours ago, Canadian Gal said:

Operating out of short strips, off grass, occasionally gravel, can the Mooney take it?

Short answer is Maybe, but the only time my Mooney's toes will touch grass or gravel is during an off-airport forced landing.  Bonanza gear is much tougher.

[Brandt]

7 hours ago, Alan Maurer said:

Hi Pam,Ovation is a fantastic plane but needs to be flown by the numbers. For light people two in front and two more in the rear works and not out of CG. You can always leave out some fuel.Mooney fuel tanks are large. Glass is a bit daunting at first, but a few hours with an instructor really helps and once learned it is quite easy. Mooneys were never really intended for short runways in my opinion. Approach speed works at exactly 75 knots and still likes to float a bit so patience on landing works. it cannot be forced onto the runway. Sad that Mooney is not building airplanes but Cirrus has a better useful load and a parachute. Mooneys don't have lots of ground clearance so I stay away from any soft runway. That said, the Ovation is a rugged, well built airplane and... it is very fast. really fast.What's not to love.

So much fun to fly.

Alan

Ovation 2GX

When you account for differences in fuel burn, I believe a Cirrus and an Ovation fueled for the same range have roughly the same useful load.  

[A64Pilot]

I live at a grass strip, and much if not most of my flying is to grass strips.

Grass is fine, I even keep the lower gear doors on.

Don’t do soft fields though or rough, most of the grass I land on is closer to golf course than cow pasture. Don’t even consider any kind of mud, be wary if it’s rained recently.

Mooney’s don’t do rough well, I even find myself having to taxi slower on many paved taxiways because if I don’t she starts bouncing on the rubber donuts.

Gravel? Used to do it often in my Maule, but wouldn’t consider it in my Mooney or likely any other low wing aircraft without some kind of fenders etc. but I think a Mooney with its low ground clearance would likely be damaged by rocks thrown up by the mains, and the prop clearance is tight, operating off of grass I don’t even get to full throttle until 40 kts or so, high power at slow airspeed will suck trash up into the prop.

Short strips can be more challenging to get into than out of if there are obstruction on the approach path. Mooney’s flaps just don’t produce much drag, you can’t push the nose down on a Mooney like say a Cessna, if you do it accelerates, so coming over tall trees into a short strip you either drag it it nose high with a high sink rate, or just don’t go there. Unless loaded heavy a Mooney will get out shorter than it can get in.

Dragging one in if you’re not real careful can be tough and I don’t if it’s gusty winds, only do it in calm winds.

Mooney is not the airplane to load a Moose into and get out of a backcountry airstrip.

It’s been I guess 15 years since I flew my Maule all over the NWT in Canada even up to the Arctic Ocean, and to be honest there wasn’t anywhere I went you couldn’t do in a Mooney, but I flew from towns that had Motels to other towns that did, except for Tuktoyoktuk, but we don’t stay there.

Seemed almost everywhere was served by Beech 1900’s, so good runways, gravel, but very well done, dense packed small gravel.

[Schllc]

If you were to download a performance profile for the ovation on foreflight, you would find it is nearly impossible to load an ovation out of CG.  

The only way you could do it is by doing things with weight that would never really happen in the real world.

[Cruiser]

With that big Continental on the nose, it is hard to load the plane outside the envelope. Two people in the front will put you very near the forward edge. That is why the batteries are in the back. You can put almost anything in the back and not worry. 
The forward loading also makes keeping the nose off while landing a little more difficult. The mains touch and the nose wants to plant itself on the ground right away. You can hold it off but you have to think about it. 

 

[1980Mooney]

If you have your heart set on an Ovation and you want to fly out of multiple grass strips and gravel then get an older model with bad paint and a high time (shorter) 3 blade prop and take off the gear doors.  Flying from a home base with perfect grass which you know intimately is one thing.  Flying into unknown grass is another.  It is just a matter of time before you tear the plane up or get stuck.  The first rut or long grass you hit with your mains will bend the leading edges of the gear doors.  That big heavy Continental IO-550 puts a lot more weight on the front than the Lycoming 4's in the mid and short bodies.  If you hit a rut with the nose wheel you will probably compress the nose disks during the bounce and there is a good chance of driving your prop right into the turf.  And any soft ground (muck under the grass), which you will never know until you hit it, will cause your wheels to sink - you can probably power out if it is a main - but if it is the nose wheel, adding power will make the plane pull forward but the stuck nose wheel will naturally compress the disks as it slightly folds back - you will drive your prop right into the dirt.  At that point make sure that your passengers or others around you are eager to help you lift the nose and push the plane back out of the rut. 

And gravel is no friend of a Mooney.  It will just pepper your leading edges of the wings and horizontal stabilizers. And the Ovation stabilizers sit quite low to the ground. You can apply tape to the leading edges but you will still get plenty of rock damage.  No point in paying for a nice paint job in that case.   More than 20 years ago I was based at West Houston which had pea-gravel in the T-cover area.  Just taxiing would cause damage.  

Edited January 20, 2023 by 1980Mooney

[aviatoreb]

Actually - for better prop clearance - more blades is better.  3 blades has more clearance than a 2-blade.

But now there is 4-blade.  4-blade has the most clearance.  If you are getting one as an after market item you definitely want the nickel sheathed leading edge option which most people go for in any case.

[Canadian Gal]

This is all great advice, so glad I found this forum, and joined.

Have had a few great PMs sent my way as well.

The grass strip I go into about a dozen times a year is in great shape, if I owned a Ferrari would drive it up and down the grass strip with no worries, but I don't own a Ferrari to that option lol.

 

Once I buy something else, my 185 will be going back on floats, it is currently on wheels. Float flying is still my passion, skis in winter is alright to.

For the occasional trip into the gravel strips, they are near enough to water, to use the 185.

 

[Hank]

7 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

Actually - for better prop clearance - more blades is better.  3 blades has more clearance than a 2-blade.

But now there is 4-blade.  4-blade has the most clearance. 

Erik, you are our resident 4-blade prop guy. But the 3-blade is the same as the 2-blades, except there's one more. 74-76" diameter, I think. 

[aviatoreb]

58 minutes ago, Hank said:

Erik, you are our resident 4-blade prop guy. But the 3-blade is the same as the 2-blades, except there's one more. 74-76" diameter, I think. 

Really?  3 is same clearance as 2?

Anyway 4 has a good bit better clearance than my 3 had.

[Hank]

13 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Really?  3 is same clearance as 2?

Mooneys, yes--2 blades, 3 blades, all same same. Other planes vary.

[aviatoreb]

2 minutes ago, Hank said:

Mooneys, yes--2 blades, 3 blades, all same same. Other planes vary.

huh! I wouldn't have guessed.

[Canadian Gal]

A set of 31" Alaskans will solve the clearance problem, and a cutting torch will make the gear wells larger lol

[Joshua Blackh4t]

I don't know about the Ovation, but my E handles some serious gravel strips fine. Once I learned how to do it properly (no runups unless its on a matt or at 20kts taxi etc)

My normal strip is grass. I find that well maintained grass is the nicest of all.

I like the big wheels idea

 

 

[Canadian Gal]

9 hours ago, Joshua Blackh4t said:

I don't know about the Ovation, but my E handles some serious gravel strips fine. Once I learned how to do it properly (no runups unless its on a matt or at 20kts taxi etc)

My normal strip is grass. I find that well maintained grass is the nicest of all.

I like the big wheels idea

 

 

The airport I initially flew out of as a student pilot spoiled me.

It was only at 1755' asl, and was 3100' long, also paved.

 

Thankfully my instructor was amazing, and made sure to take me to plenty of larger airports with control towers, and also unpaved strips that were shorter, so I was trained somewhat to deal with the real world.

To this day all of my best landings are on runways under 4000' long. Once they exceed 4000' in length, for some reason my landings are just okay.

If less than 2500' long, or unpaved, then it seems almost easier, and I'm at the top of my game.

It has to be some subconscious oddity in my brain.

The harder a landing should be, the better it is.

Give me some ridiculously huge runway, say 150' or more wide, and 7000' plus long, and I honestly get a little bit stressed, and I would only rate my landings about a 5 out of 10.

 

[1980Mooney]

15 hours ago, Hank said:

Mooneys, yes--2 blades, 3 blades, all same same. Other planes vary.

 

15 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

huh! I wouldn't have guessed.

You would not have guessed it because it is not true.

Since the OP is interested in the Ovation:

• The original Ovation had a 3 blade McCaulley - 73"
• The Ovation 2 came with a 2 blade McCaulley - 76"
• The Ovation 3 and Ultra came with a Hartzell Scimitar 3 blade - 76"

These are the OEM props for the Ovation.

 

[GeeBee]

I've been watching this thread, loathe to chime in but I guess I will.

If operating out of gravel more than once a year or poor or questionable grass an Ovation is not your airplane. Well mowed and maintained turf no problem. If transient grass strips and gravel is your norm buy a 185. You ask about learning glass (which is easy). That means you want a nice well equipped airplane. You won't like what gravel will do to your nice Mooney. If it has TKS, forget about it. You'll be buying new horizontal stabilizer panels in no time, and they are not cheap.

The Ovation prop clearance with a Hartzell scimitar 3 blade is 11.125" with new doughnuts. I struggle enough with dings just on paved strips. Unless you want to visit the prop shop early and often, stay off of gravel. 

CG is not a problem, everything is on top of the wing. With two people in the front, I throw 40 pounds of sand in the baggage just to keep the handling nice. 1 person and luggage? Piece of cake.

Hate to be brutally honest but match the airplane to the mission. There is no fast airplane that can operate off all surfaces and conditions. Everything has a price, both positive and a negative. Mooneys are  very fast, very economical, very sturdy but they are not infinitely flexible in the operating conditions. No airplane has all those attributes.

 

[Joshua Blackh4t]

3 hours ago, Canadian Gal said:

The airport I initially flew out of as a student pilot spoiled me.

It was only at 1755' asl, and was 3100' long, also paved.

 

Thankfully my instructor was amazing, and made sure to take me to plenty of larger airports with control towers, and also unpaved strips that were shorter, so I was trained somewhat to deal with the real world.

To this day all of my best landings are on runways under 4000' long. Once they exceed 4000' in length, for some reason my landings are just okay.

If less than 2500' long, or unpaved, then it seems almost easier, and I'm at the top of my game.

It has to be some subconscious oddity in my brain.

The harder a landing should be, the better it is.

Give me some ridiculously huge runway, say 150' or more wide, and 7000' plus long, and I honestly get a little bit stressed, and I would only rate my landings about a 5 out of 10.

 

I had a similar thing when adjusting to the Mooney. All the 'difficult' landings were good and the easy ones were..... ordinary. So now I treat every landing as if its a nasty gusty wind and and they end up a lot better.

I also found out the hard way that rocky gravel strips weren't a problem, but sandy strips with loose little rocks in loose sand was just impossible to fly off without peppering the prop.

Paved strips are often worst of all though. Loose gravel on a paved strip can be really nasty.

Remember, the old E model that I'm flying is a pretty different story to an Ovation.