New Mooney owner. Looking for advice, ideas, and plans.

[AnAngryGoose]

Hi everyone,

I recently just bought a 1964 M20D (FINALLY!). There is a lot of work to be done to get it flying but overall it's in a good place, relatively. I'll list the current state with some info on each major project as I see with a little info for each. I'm absolutely open and welcome to any info, advice, ideas, or input anyone here may give me.

Currently the panel is removed but most wiring is there (a good bit will be leaving though), which helps me honestly as I plan to do a few small upgrades. I'm planning on removing the KI525 HSI and the KI256 AI and replacing them both dual G5's. I was hoping to remove the vacuum system with this upgrade but from I have read it seems the retractable step also uses this system. Is that the case? I've seen a electric replacement but not sure on that yet.

The interior is completely removed. The purchase included brand new molded plastic sidewalls, 6 or 7 full hides of light brown leather, and all the other needed interior pieces. I will eventually reupholster all seats and such with the leather but that may come later. I plan on using this time with it removed to deeply inspect and clean the cabin area including the steel cage, spar, and side wall sections. Any other things I should do while it's out? Advice for interior work?

It comes with brand new landing gear discs which I'll be replacing. I have the tooling for the mains (the one used to check torque), but not the one to compress the nose. Any advice on getting that done somewhat easily would be more than welcome.

I'll be doing a full annual on it to dive deeper into all other remaining sections of the plane. Engines looked good so far with borescope and compression checks. Only 200hrs on engine which is nice.

Anything else to do while its down? Ideas? Advice? Crazy to own a plane finally, let alone a MOONEY! Sorry for the long post. Just figured it was easier to throw all these things into one place than to make 8 different threads later. I can post some pics next time I'm at the hangar if anyone is interested.

Thanks in advance.

Edited December 2, 2022 by AnAngryGoose

[kortopates]

First thing should be to comply with 208 service bulletin for corrosion in the lower steel frame if it wasn’t accomplished at pre-buy or recently; especially if parked out doors in a prior life. will be easy to check now that it’s opened up.


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[DCarlton]

Upgrade your antennas if necessary (GPS, etc) and run whatever RF cables you may need to the overhead or tail while the interior is out.  Check the wiring to the overhead lights too and get that overhead vent working freely if you have one.  You didn't mention whether your airplane has the Brittain wing leveler or autopilot but if it has the retract step it may.  You'll have to decide what parts you're keeping.  Those red and green plastic tubes running to the tail are part of that system.  You can also check your fuel lines and fuel senders while the interior is out.  If those interior side panels are new and have never been installed, they'll need some trimming, fitting and perhaps coating (with SEM) to install.  Those new panels can look great but it's a tedious job to get them to fit.  If / when you work SB208 and if you install new insulation, think about fitting the interior panels and make sure you don't have any interferences.  Not an expert; just a guy that's owned an ole Mooney for a long time.  

[AnAngryGoose]

55 minutes ago, kortopates said:

First thing should be to comply with 208 service bulletin for corrosion in the lower steel frame if it wasn’t accomplished at pre-buy or recently; especially if parked out doors in a prior life. will be easy to check now that it’s opened up.


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Dealing with potential corrosion and dealing with the 208 bulliten is definitely on the to do list.

 

43 minutes ago, DCarlton said:

Upgrade your antennas if necessary (GPS, etc) and run whatever RF cables you may need to the overhead or tail while the interior is out.  Check the wiring to the overhead lights too and get that overhead vent working freely if you have one.  You didn't mention whether your airplane has the Brittain wing leveler or autopilot but if it has the retract step it may.  You'll have to decide what parts you're keeping.  Those red and green plastic tubes running to the tail are part of that system.  You can also check your fuel lines and fuel senders while the interior is out.  If those interior side panels are new and have never been installed, they'll need some trimming, fitting and perhaps coating (with SEM) to install.  Those new panels can look great but it's a tedious job to get them to fit.  If / when you work SB208 and if you install new insulation, think about fitting the interior panels and make sure you don't have any interferences.  Not an expert; just a guy that's owned an ole Mooney for a long time.  

I'll be adding a WAAS GPS. I've been trying to research and decide which system would be most worth investing in while saving money and working well in a future system. GPS 175 is at a good point and will integrate to any other Garmin system I plan on adding later so that's what I'm mainly looking at now.

It has a century IIb AP with wing leveler. Not the best but it will (hopefully) work for now.

Thanks for the advice on the panels. I'll be sure to keep that in mind.

[A64Pilot]

Personally I wouldn’t put much money in it in upgrades, just make it airworthy, a 67D is only worth just so much and you don’t want to end up with more than it’s worth, yes I know hopefully you were essentially given it, but things will pop up on their own, all requiring money, trust me this project will cost more than you think so don’t go spending money on fancy avionics just yet.

Put it together and fly it, then after flying it decide how many if any of those must have’s like dual G5’s you really need.

You may decide after a year and 100 hours that selling you D and taking the profit and putting it into another Mooney may be the way to go, thing about “upgrades” is you don’t get your money back come sales time.

[rbp]

34 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

only worth just so much and you don’t want to end up with more than it’s worth

this is true if the plane is an investment.

if he is flying it, then making the plane more enjoyable / safer / reliable is worth spending some (personal TBD) money, above and beyond the value of the plane, especially considering that the alternative might be a more expensive plane, with concomitant unknowns. 

[AnAngryGoose]

2 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

Personally I wouldn’t put much money in it in upgrades, just make it airworthy, a 67D is only worth just so much and you don’t want to end up with more than it’s worth, yes I know hopefully you were essentially given it, but things will pop up on their own, all requiring money, trust me this project will cost more than you think so don’t go spending money on fancy avionics just yet.

Put it together and fly it, then after flying it decide how many if any of those must have’s like dual G5’s you really need.

You may decide after a year and 100 hours that selling you D and taking the profit and putting it into another Mooney may be the way to go, thing about “upgrades” is you don’t get your money back come sales time.

Thanks for the input. I'm only really planning on getting the G5s since I can get them at a good price, and they're easy enough to install and less worry than the old analog stuff that's currently there.

Getting it flying is absolutely first priority, most things will be on hold until later for sure. I was just going to take advantage of this downtime while I can.

2 hours ago, rbp said:

this is true if the plane is an investment.

if he is flying it, then making the plane more enjoyable / safer / reliable is worth spending some (personal TBD) money, above and beyond the value of the plane, especially considering that the alternative might be a more expensive plane, with concomitant unknowns. 

It is at worst an investment. I can definitely get my money back at the price I'm into it for but I hope that won't be the case. I really am looking forward into flying this thing as much as possible so a few QOL upgrades seemed reasonable if I can make it happen for a good price.

[A64Pilot]

Personally I’d take this D get it airworthy put some time on it so it’s good and marketable, flip it and look for a good F to replace it. Then you have Mooney time etc.

Think of it as your trainer

Done right meaning get a good price for the D and find a hangar Queen F, not a ramp tramp, and you could be into an F for not a whole lot more, but save your upgrade money for the F.

It’s work and who knows where we will be in a year but if I were younger that would be my plan

[47U]

23 hours ago, AnAngryGoose said:

Anything else to do while its down?

 

Check the stub spar for a crack at the flap actuator.  You might have to pump the flaps all the way down which flexes the spar slightly making the crack visible.  SB20-217.  LASAR has the beef-up plate.

[DCarlton]

39 minutes ago, 47U said:

 

Check the stub spar for a crack at the flap actuator.  You might have to pump the flaps all the way down which flexes the spar slightly making the crack visible.  SB20-217.  LASAR has the beef-up plate.

Is that pic upside down from the bottom of the airplane or am I lost and confused on the location?   

[47U]

3 hours ago, DCarlton said:

Is that pic upside down from the bottom of the airplane

Sorry… not enough background for spatial reference… the picture is right side up.  The baggage floor is removed. 

Here’s a better perspective.  It’s the top bolt holding the flap torque tube bracket.  Can’t see the crack, can you… but it’s there.

 

 

[DCarlton]

13 minutes ago, 47U said:

Sorry… not enough background for spatial reference… the picture is right side up.  The baggage floor is removed. 

Here’s a better perspective.  It’s the top bolt holding the flap torque tube bracket.  Can’t see the crack, can you… but it’s there.

 

 

Guess I need to read that bulletin.   How do you access the area for inspection?  Can you see it from the bottom or with a mirror from the bottom?  Or from the holes in the floor?  

[47U]

18 minutes ago, DCarlton said:

Guess I need to read that bulletin.

If your model year is ‘67, you might be exempt.  Mooney beefed up the stub spar thickness and raised the flap extend speed.  The target airframes the SB applies to all have a 100 mph flap speed. If your’s is higher than that I don’t think you have anything to worry about.  But, read the SB to make sure.

[DCarlton]

12 hours ago, 47U said:

If your model year is ‘67, you might be exempt.  Mooney beefed up the stub spar thickness and raised the flap extend speed.  The target airframes the SB applies to all have a 100 mph flap speed. If your’s is higher than that I don’t think you have anything to worry about.  But, read the SB to make sure.

I'm in the 100 mph camp.  My mechanic may have checked these in the past.  I looked closely during my last annual but it looks like the cracks are hard to see or they can be obscured by the brackets.  Will have to study the SB before the next annual.  Seems like a reason to back off on using full flaps perhaps... just when I was starting to use full flaps.  

[kortopates]

I'm in the 100 mph camp.  My mechanic may have checked these in the past.  I looked closely during my last annual but it looks like the cracks are hard to see or they can be obscured by the brackets.  Will have to study the SB before the next annual.  Seems like a reason to back off on using full flaps perhaps... just when I was starting to use full flaps.  

i’d say it’s a reason not to deploy flaps above max flap extension speed - not avoiding full flaps!
Landing a few knots slower with full flaps will be much gentler on the airframe and gear over time.


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[rbp]

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

Landing a few knots slower with full flaps will be much gentler on the airframe

F=1/2 * MV^2
2500# airframe @80 = 1250*6400 = 8,000,000
2500# airfreame @75 = 1250*5626 = 7,032,500

regardless of the units, doing 75 instead of 80 is ~17% less energy

[DCarlton]

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

i’d say it’s a reason not to deploy flaps above max flap extension speed - not avoiding full flaps!
Landing a few knots slower with full flaps will be much gentler on the airframe and gear over time.


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I know I know.  After all the encouragement I've received to use full flaps the last few weeks, I'm doing it dang it... I'm doing it.  I'm using full flaps.  Really I am.  :>  (but with a little sarcasm, I could have done without the whole flap crack reminder thing just when I was starting to have fun)

[rbp]

1 minute ago, DCarlton said:

I know I know.  After all the encouragement I've received to use full flaps the last few weeks, I'm doing it dang it... I'm doing it.  I'm using full flaps.  Really I am.  :>  (but with a little sarcasm, I could have done without the whole flap crack reminder thing just when I was starting to have fun)

good for you.  

[DCarlton]

1 minute ago, rbp said:

good for you.  

Mooneyspace is certainly a positive force.  Not only does the community help significantly with maintenance (I've certainly saved time and money), I've learned a lot about flying the airplane too just sitting at my desktop.  When you've done something the same way for decades, there's a lot of inertia involved (stubborn and set in your ways is a squared term too).  Enough folks chime in on MS and it makes you open up and think about it.  

[rbp]

3 hours ago, DCarlton said:

Mooneyspace is certainly a positive force.  Not only does the community help significantly with maintenance (I've certainly saved time and money), I've learned a lot about flying the airplane too just sitting at my desktop.  When you've done something the same way for decades, there's a lot of inertia involved (stubborn and set in your ways is a squared term too).  Enough folks chime in on MS and it makes you open up and think about it.  

once upon a time on here, I argued that most planes should land with full flaps (except in icing), and you know what the counter was to that? the older model POHs said flaps "AS REQURED," so people treat it as an issue of freedom, rather than of safety, on a board where safety is discussed down to the smallest detail. Get a Mooney CFI, they tell you. Do slow flight. Have redundant equipment. etc etc. Land with full flaps??? "Why should I?"

[Kelpro999]

 Congratulations on your first Mooney. Now you’re going to learn about screws and lots of them. My bird is two years older but I think it’s essentially the same with factory retract gear. My step is raised using a hand crank like a window regulator. Anyway, on top of the thousand other things to consider is addressing cabin noise levels while the interior is out. The best low budget improvement I’ve done is remove all the OE insulation, add 20% flat area CLD sheet then 1/2” stick on foam from Spruce. Went from an indoor concert to a library, then canceling headsets helped with other frequencies. Good luck with with this  project. You’ve found the right resource here at Mooneyspace. 

[Pinecone]

How much weight did the CLD plus insulation add?

[Jsno]

There are posts on mooney space on removing the nose truss and compressing it in a hydraulic presss to replace the pucks.  Also check for blue stains on the interior wing root and front and rear spar.  Now is the time to seal any leaks.

[Fly Boomer]

8 hours ago, Kelpro999 said:

The best low budget improvement I’ve done is remove all the OE insulation, add 20% flat area CLD sheet then 1/2” stick on foam from Spruce.

I was following along with removing the OE insulation, and I was okay with the 1/2" stick on foam, but you lost me with the 20% flat area CLD.

[M20F-1968]

On 12/1/2022 at 7:53 PM, AnAngryGoose said:

Hi everyone,

I recently just bought a 1964 M20D (FINALLY!). There is a lot of work to be done to get it flying but overall it's in a good place, relatively. I'll list the current state with some info on each major project as I see with a little info for each. I'm absolutely open and welcome to any info, advice, ideas, or input anyone here may give me.

Currently the panel is removed but most wiring is there (a good bit will be leaving though), which helps me honestly as I plan to do a few small upgrades. I'm planning on removing the KI525 HSI and the KI256 AI and replacing them both dual G5's. I was hoping to remove the vacuum system with this upgrade but from I have read it seems the retractable step also uses this system. Is that the case? I've seen a electric replacement but not sure on that yet.

The interior is completely removed. The purchase included brand new molded plastic sidewalls, 6 or 7 full hides of light brown leather, and all the other needed interior pieces. I will eventually reupholster all seats and such with the leather but that may come later. I plan on using this time with it removed to deeply inspect and clean the cabin area including the steel cage, spar, and side wall sections. Any other things I should do while it's out? Advice for interior work?

It comes with brand new landing gear discs which I'll be replacing. I have the tooling for the mains (the one used to check torque), but not the one to compress the nose. Any advice on getting that done somewhat easily would be more than welcome.

I'll be doing a full annual on it to dive deeper into all other remaining sections of the plane. Engines looked good so far with borescope and compression checks. Only 200hrs on engine which is nice.

Anything else to do while its down? Ideas? Advice? Crazy to own a plane finally, let alone a MOONEY! Sorry for the long post. Just figured it was easier to throw all these things into one place than to make 8 different threads later. I can post some pics next time I'm at the hangar if anyone is interested.

Thanks in advance.

Your wiring is 48 years old.  Take it all out and replace it with new Milspec wiring.  Old insulation is brittle and unreliable.  Now that you have the airplane opened up with the panel out, you can and should do this.  It will also add to your resale.  Design a panel so that new equipment can be easily added and use a standard configuration.

John Breda