How do you start an Ovation?

[rickseeman]

That may sound stupid but I consider the POH to be my source for how to operate the airplane and I can't figure it out. I've read the Engine Start in Normal Procedures 50 times and I still don't get it. There is nothing there about priming. (It does say low boost pump on during start sequence.) My M20F, 231 or Bonanzas wouldn't start without priming and I can't believe this thing will either. So before I run both batterys dead cranking/under-priming/over-priming/flooded engine/fire trucks I think the prudent thing to do is ask the MS braintrust for advise. Normal start, hot start, cold day (30 degree) normal start. I have a feeling there's people here that have done this before. Thanks.

[rpcc]

There are many threads on this.

[rickseeman]

I'll do a search. Thanks

[rickseeman]

It appears I'm not very good with a search box either. I tried "how do you start an ovation" and got no hits and then "starting ovation" and got no hits. I heard about pilots skills diminishing but.....

[hypertech]

Start procedures are in the POH.  Normal start:

Mixture and throttle full. 

Boost pump to prime until you see stable fuel flow

Throttle to idle then three turns in

Wait for three foot tall passenger to approve yelling Clear

Crank

Bump low boost as needing once it fires to get it stable

When in doubt, more boost

[rickseeman]

15 minutes ago, hypertech said:

Start procedures are in the POH.  Normal start:

Mixture and throttle full. 

Boost pump to prime until you see stable fuel flow

Mixture to idle then three turns in

Wait for three foot tall passenger to approve yelling Clear

Crank

Bump low boost as needing once it fires to get it stable

When in doubt, more boost

That makes perfect sense. The line:

"Boost pump to prime until you see stable fuel flow"

is missing from my POH and the other serial number POH that I have. Thank you.

 

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, rickseeman said:

It appears I'm not very good with a search box either. I tried "how do you start an ovation" and got no hits and then "starting ovation" and got no hits. I heard about pilots skills diminishing but.....

Don't feel bad -- I couldn't find them either. Perhaps @rpcc could provide some links.

[PT20J]

52 minutes ago, rickseeman said:

That makes perfect sense. The line:

"Boost pump to prime until you see stable fuel flow"

is missing from my POH and the other serial number POH that I have. Thank you.

 

The priming part is not clear from the POH

 

[rickseeman]

I wouldn't say it's exactly "not clear", priming is not even mentioned, other than saying to turn on the low boost pump while cranking.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, rickseeman said:

That makes perfect sense. The line:

"Boost pump to prime until you see stable fuel flow"

is missing from my POH and the other serial number POH that I have. Thank you.

 

Throttle fully open, mixture full rich, using high pressure pump, flip guard out of the way, turn pump on for a few second(3-4) turn off, close throttle, bump throttle open about 1/8” engage starter, enjoy engine noise.  

If the fuel system is set correctly the engine should idle without the low boost pump on.  S/I M20-107 has engine set up procedures.

https://www.mooney.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/SIM20-107.pdf

[kortopates]

6 minutes ago, rickseeman said:

I wouldn't say it's exactly "not clear", priming is not even mentioned, other than saying to turn on the low boost pump while cranking.

"turn on the low boost pump" is priming. The POH actually has you priming while cranking; but not all do it that way, yet its always worked for me.

[rickseeman]

That's what I did (since that's what the POH says) and it never hit once,

[Hank]

We don't have primers, so just turn on the pump and let fuel pressure rise and stabilize. I even do that in my C, except then I turn the pump off. (What can I say, it's carbureted.)

[Scottknoll]

I wouldn't say it's exactly "not clear", priming is not even mentioned, other than saying to turn on the low boost pump while cranking.

Page 7-23 in the fuel system description. Not in the checklist, but it’s in there.

[rickseeman]

That's the switch I used while cranking as instructed in the POH. On a Bonanza to prime it's like throttle and mixture full forward. Boost pump on until fuel flow shows on the gauge. Then leave on for 1 second for warm day, 3 seconds for cold day & 5 seconds for very cold day. Then start the engine. I was hoping there was a similar procedure for the O.

[ilovecornfields]

I do what @M20Doc said. Never had an issue except in cold weather when I have to prime a couple more seconds

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

"turn on the low boost pump" is priming. The POH actually has you priming while cranking; but not all do it that way, yet its always worked for me.

Yes Paul, but the way it is written, you could turn the pump on an then call your wife to tell her you’ll be home for dinner and then complete the procedure by which time you will need the flooded start procedure 

[rickseeman]

7 minutes ago, ilovecornfields said:

I do what @M20Doc said. Never had an issue except in cold weather when I have to prime a couple more seconds

I agree. I think I have a plan. Thanks to everyone for your help.

[Bolter]

@Cruiser owned my Ovation before me.  He researched and defined a procedure based on input from Continental engineers he spoke with.  I find that POH and his method both work well for me, but only for the first start of the day. 

If the engine is warm, his method of leaving the throttle at 1200 rpm position (from shutdown), mixture off, pump off works better than POH method.  When engine lights, enrichen the mixture and possible tap the low boost pump as needed to get it to idle.   

[PMcClure]

For Hot Start, I use the following:

Throttle Full

Mixture Off

Prime 10 sec on Low or 5 seconds on High

Mixture full 

Close throttle then open to 3-4 half turns

Crank 

While cranking, turn throttle slowly in until engine catches

Reduce throttle to idle

[rickseeman]

Thanks

[carusoam]

1 hour ago, rickseeman said:

That's the switch I used while cranking as instructed in the POH. On a Bonanza to prime it's like throttle and mixture full forward. Boost pump on until fuel flow shows on the gauge. Then leave on for 1 second for warm day, 3 seconds for cold day & 5 seconds for very cold day. Then start the engine. I was hoping there was a similar procedure for the O.

You seem to have it all organized now…

The written procedures do include the details…. Just some details get misplaced…

 

Transition Training is what really helps for this….  My start notes came nicely translated from TT…

 

Some key points to consider…. As Doc pointed out above…

1) For fuel to get to the engine…

 - the mixture has to be in…

 - the throttle needs to be in as well!

These points are easy to forget… the amount of fuel flowing depends on the throttle position.  The pump on times depend on this small detail….

 

2) remember to pull the throttle out now!  (This is the ‘I am human’ test….)

3) There are two fuel pump settings Lo and Hi…. Use either one, but adjust the time required…

4) There are two times… one for +40°F, the other for <40°F…

5) If it is really cold out… expect to run the Lo fuel pump during start and for some time until things warm up a bit…

6) Throttle setting… you kind of want it to start up and idle at 1k rpm…

Magically, the throttle can be twisted about one turn, to achieve that…

Two turns may start easier, but will over rev your target… so be ready to bring it back…

7) Pre-heat is always a good idea when cold…

8) Check the POH for prime time… I use the Hi boost for 5 seconds on a warm day… 10? On a cold day…

9) Keep in mind… there isn’t any fuel going to the engine until the FF gauge is registering… 

soooo… don’t count the second or two… while the pump is on, and nothing is coming through….

Anything sound new, or not right?

Best regards,

 -a-

[rbp]

8 hours ago, PMcClure said:

Throttle Full

Mixture Off

Prime 10 sec on Low or 5 seconds on High

If the mixture is off, where does the fuel come from? 

[midlifeflyer]

11 hours ago, Scottknoll said:

Page 7-23 in the fuel system description. Not in the checklist, but it’s in there.

You're expecting people to read the Systems section of the POH to understand the aircraft systems? 

[PMcClure]

2 hours ago, rbp said:

If the mixture is off, where does the fuel come from? 

This is the method taught to me years ago for Continental engines. I do not recall what the Mooney POH says, but using the POH procedure in the Bonanza left me frustrated and with a dead battery at least once. As I understand, running the boost pump with mixture off builds pressure which will overcome vapor lock. When cranking the mixture is on, providing fuel. Turning the throttle in adjusts the air/mixture ratio until the magic combustion ratio is found. Works every time for me, the only downside is sometimes the starting RPM is uncomfortably high and turns a few heads on the ramp.