What plane is this?

[A64Pilot]

This is a metallized wing C-140, many ways to do that several STC’s and quite a few field approved, mine is .018 metal I think and drag braces removed so no real weight gain over fabric, back in the day fabric was Cotton and didn’t last long, couple of years maybe on an airplane tied down.

Cessna built about 8,000 in five years, and I think at least 2,500 are still flying.

The 120 didn’t have flaps, an electrical system or the D shaped windows behind the cockpit, so hand propping only, no radio, lights etc.

Having metal wings doesn’t mean you only have to have one strut, Maule’s for example have always been metal winged but have dual struts, neat thing about double struts is the wings washout is adjustable, you don’t have aileron trim tabs on a double strutted wing, you adjust the length of the aft strut to increase or decrease lift.

Back in the day engines were named if you will by HP, mine is a C-85 for example, later they were named by displacement O-200 is the closest modern Continental, C-85 displaced 188 cu in. So 145’s became O-300’s maybe

 

[carusoam]

The O300 went out of style when OHs for six cylinder engines cost way more than the four cylinder IO360…

As I compared plane to plane of similar years, HP, and performance…

The M20C with an O360 made looking at O300 powered planes a non-issue…

Go Mooney!

Now for that engine with the monstah pipes… is that real?

Best regards,

-a-

[Mcstealth]

15 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

This is a metallized wing C-140, many ways to do that several STC’s and quite a few field approved, mine is .018 metal I think and drag braces removed so no real weight gain over fabric, back in the day fabric was Cotton and didn’t last long, couple of years maybe on an airplane tied down.

Cessna built about 8,000 in five years, and I think at least 2,500 are still flying.

The 120 didn’t have flaps, an electrical system or the D shaped windows behind the cockpit, so hand propping only, no radio, lights etc.

Having metal wings doesn’t mean you only have to have one strut, Maule’s for example have always been metal winged but have dual struts, neat thing about double struts is the wings washout is adjustable, you don’t have aileron trim tabs on a double strutted wing, you adjust the length of the aft strut to increase or decrease lift.

Back in the day engines were named if you will by HP, mine is a C-85 for example, later they were named by displacement O-200 is the closest modern Continental, C-85 displaced 188 cu in. So 145’s became O-300’s maybe

 

A 140 with the six cylinder?

[A64Pilot]

22 minutes ago, Mcstealth said:

A 140 with the six cylinder?

No,  the picture I posted is a metallized wing 140, posted to show first what one looks like and to show the D shaped windows that 120’s didn’t come with.

If your familiar with 120 / 140 you won’t mistake them for a 170 anymore than you will mistake a 150 for a 152. 

Both the 140 and the 170 had fabric covered wings and V wing struts, both the 140A and the 170A got metal wings and single struts. Eventually the 170 became the 172 and for some reason the 140 didn’t become the 142, but the 150.

The first 150’s were actually 140 fuselages with the original gear box still installed, easy to convert back to tailwheel airplanes and a surprising number have been, the 150’s  had Fowler flaps which are hugely more effective than the 140’s simple flaps, the 140 has so much wing for such a light airplane the flaps don’t really do much, I think they are there primarily as the 140 was a trainer and to train you to use flaps so when you moved onto bigger heavier aircraft that benefitted from them.

The little 140 has a 33 ‘ 4” wingspan and a 8lb per sq ft wing loading at max gross, which is I think about half what a J model’s is and Mooney’s are not high wing loaded airplanes.

[Shadrach]

16 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

No,  the picture I posted is a metallized wing 140, posted to show first what one looks like and to show the D shaped windows that 120’s didn’t come with.

If your familiar with 120 / 140 you won’t mistake them for a 170 anymore than you will mistake a 150 for a 152. 

Both the 140 and the 170 had fabric covered wings and V wing struts, both the 140A and the 170A got metal wings and single struts. Eventually the 170 became the 172 and for some reason the 140 didn’t become the 142, but the 150.

The first 150’s were actually 140 fuselages with the original gear box still installed, easy to convert back to tailwheel airplanes and a surprising number have been, the 150’s  had Fowler flaps which are hugely more effective than the 140’s simple flaps, the 140 has so much wing for such a light airplane the flaps don’t really do much, I think they are there primarily as the 140 was a trainer and to train you to use flaps so when you moved onto bigger heavier aircraft that benefitted from them.

The little 140 has a 33 ‘ 4” wingspan and a 8lb per sq ft wing loading at max gross, which is I think about half what a J model’s is and Mooney’s are not high wing loaded airplanes.

Modding the C120 to near 140 specs is not uncommon. I’ve seen several metalized 120s wih side windows that are almost indistinguishable from 140s save for the lack of flaps. I think some were even updated with 140 wings. So in reality you can always tell a when you’re looking at a stock 120 but what might look at first like 140 could be a modded 120.

here are two side window 120s for sale right now.

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=CESSNA&model=120&listing_id=2407488&s-type=aircraft

https://www.barnstormers.com/classified-1766333-1946-Cessna-120.html?catid=17372
 

 

[Mcstealth]

11 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

No,  the picture I posted is a metallized wing 140, posted to show first what one looks like and to show the D shaped windows that 120’s didn’t come with.

If your familiar with 120 / 140 you won’t mistake them for a 170 anymore than you will mistake a 150 for a 152. 

Both the 140 and the 170 had fabric covered wings and V wing struts, both the 140A and the 170A got metal wings and single struts. Eventually the 170 became the 172 and for some reason the 140 didn’t become the 142, but the 150.

The first 150’s were actually 140 fuselages with the original gear box still installed, easy to convert back to tailwheel airplanes and a surprising number have been, the 150’s  had Fowler flaps which are hugely more effective than the 140’s simple flaps, the 140 has so much wing for such a light airplane the flaps don’t really do much, I think they are there primarily as the 140 was a trainer and to train you to use flaps so when you moved onto bigger heavier aircraft that benefitted from them.

The little 140 has a 33 ‘ 4” wingspan and a 8lb per sq ft wing loading at max gross, which is I think about half what a J model’s is and Mooney’s are not high wing loaded airplanes.

Ah. They both started with fabric, and both could be metalized. Got it. 

[carusoam]

David,

How isn’t the training going lately?

Best regards,

-a-

[A64Pilot]

23 hours ago, Shadrach said:

Modding the C120 to near 140 specs is not uncommon. I’ve seen several metalized 120s wih side windows that are almost indistinguishable from 140s save for the lack of flaps. I think some were even updated with 140 wings. So in reality you can always tell a when you’re looking at a stock 120 but what might look at first like 140 could be a modded 120.

here are two side window 120s for sale right now.

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=CESSNA&model=120&listing_id=2407488&s-type=aircraft

https://www.barnstormers.com/classified-1766333-1946-Cessna-120.html?catid=17372
 

 

Yes sadly an unmodded 120 is hard to find, I say sadly because they were significantly lighter and climbed better, could land and takeoff shorter, carry heavier loads etc.

Battery, generator, starter even flaps etc add a not insignificant amount of weight to an aircraft that weighs less than 800 lbs empty.

Even unmolested 140’s are getting scarce, my metallized one is one example, but people continually are “improving” their 140’s by installing 150 seats that are heavier and come with a recurring AD the originals don’t have and 150 mufflers that are heavier and come with a recurring AD that the original straight pipes don’t have.

Then there are several STC’s for engines, O-200 is one as C-85 cranks are really hard to find, even an O-290 which leaves you essentially with zero useful load. O-235

Problem with many old aircraft like 140’s is say a new engine costs more than the aircraft is worth sometimes.

[Mcstealth]

On 10/11/2022 at 12:22 PM, carusoam said:

David,

How isn’t the training going lately?

Best regards,

-a-

Whoops. Missed this for some reason. 

Upset to say, slow. Life always gets in the way it seems. 

The Darter is down, maybe permanently. My CFII got a real Jet job so he's gone all the time. The steak house is busy enough to take my extra time away. 

You know, life.