Vacuum to Glass - your thoughts on 2nd COM ?

[midlifeflyer]

FWIW,  I'm teaching in an LSA with single com. A good one. Flip flop and monitor capability. The airplane is VFR only and the system has ability to populate the com from the EFIS. But even so,  you can feel the loss of the ability to preset a COM2 to make staying ahead  easier.

Edited March 6, 2022 by midlifeflyer

[cbarry]

Since you’ve selected the G3X, two GTN650Xis might fit into your system well—redundancy and matching functionality works well when you’re humming along at Mooney speeds!

[cbarry]

50 minutes ago, JohnZ said:

@cbarry as far as redundancy goes… the G3X has its own built in GPS (even if it is a VFR only GPS… it would still be perfectly capable in a loss of 650 reception in IMC scenario), so there is already 2 sources of navigation capable GPS on board. Having a second nav/com unit that is not GPS capable provides a backup to terrestrial navigation. So there is redundancy on both fronts… if the OP really did want to have 2 WAAS GPS units on board, I would keep the 430 in addition to a 650 over dual 650s and save the $12,000 that a second 650Xi costs. Since they’re already getting a G3X a second 650 for additional displays seems a little unnecessary. I agree with you that backups are nice but I think as a community we take the idea of redundancy a little bit outside the scope of what is realistically necessary sometimes. 

What you lay out is reasonable, but what I’m talking about is redundancy when you need it.  The 750 is overkill when the G3X is being consider.  The G3X is not an IFR gps box (as you state) and if you have  a failed primary GPS in VMC, it may serve the purpose or you could just just look out of the window and fly.   If a GPS/NAV/COM fails in IMC, it would be fairly nice to have a backup that is capable such as second unit—waas or not. 

 

[JohnB]

Of all of my upgrades i've done, all glass GTN750, G500Txi, Aspen evolution secondary backup, I kept my 430W as my second radio. It still works perfectly well, and communicates well with all of my other avionics. Yes I could upgrade it to a GTN650, but the only thing I would really gain is touch screen vs knobs, and a bit bigger display screen, and I kind of like having a knob option for the second radio. I didn't see spending the extra $$$, replacing something working perfectly, and exchanging for more touch screens in my plane which can be a bit of a challenge in lots of turbulence.

The things you wont be able to do, is you'll need to update  the 430 card separately from all of your other avionics, as you cant sync a card update or Flightstream update to all devices like you can with the newer avionics, and some of the approaches like visual glide path approaches to any airport and VNAV features, wont work on the 430 for redundancy, but I use my other nav equipment when that happens. If you do replace your 430W, they have a very good resale value as they're still a great unit. 

 

 

Edited March 6, 2022 by JohnB

[pagirard]

I can't thank all of you enough for the insights and inputs you have shared. We have our last call with the avionics shop in Monday and we are pretty settled on the following:

* one IFR GPS (GTN 750Xi), 1 VFR GPS : G3x

* 2 COMS and 2 NAVs (GTN 750Xi + GMA35 and GNC 255A)

So if the GTN fails, we can still shoot ILS approaches with the GNC255A

I was critical for us to order the right equipment because the lead times are very high right now (6 months) so we don't want a redo in 6mo !

 

Thanks again - I'll share a picture of the panel when it's done (don't hold your breath...) and thanks again for all your advices and inputs

 

 

[ZuluZulu]

On 3/5/2022 at 12:14 PM, JohnZ said:

2 comms is pretty much a necessity. Being able to hear center/approach while listening to destination atis is one of several examples where one comm can be a hassle. There are several ways to achieve this. Since you're going Garmin, the GNC255A is a great option, as it is both a comm and a nav. Go with two radios... I also think there possibly might be a way to integrate a second comm with the G3X. Personal opinion only - I don't like using the G3X for changing frequencies and prefer using the dedicated comm unit for that function.

There are good reasons to have dual COMMs, but the GNC 255A can do this: you can monitor the second (flip-flop) frequency and listen to it and your active frequency at the same time, all from the same box. 

[pagirard]

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who helped with this decision and letting you guys know that the work has finally started !

[Pinecone]

1)  Keep the 530W and 430W and move along.  You can later swap them out for Avidyne replacements.  And can be done one at a time.

2)  Replace the 530/430 with a GTN-650Xi and a 255 nav/com.  Alternative, keep one of the two, put in 650Xi.

3)  Spend your kids' inheritance and put in a 750Xi with 650Xi as your second nav/com.

A GTN is going to sync up and work more seamlessly with the G3X than the GNSs.

Not sure of your transponder, but the 345 is very nice.

[ZuluZulu]

6 hours ago, Pinecone said:

1)  Keep the 530W and 430W and move along.  You can later swap them out for Avidyne replacements.  And can be done one at a time.

2)  Replace the 530/430 with a GTN-650Xi and a 255 nav/com.  Alternative, keep one of the two, put in 650Xi.

3)  Spend your kids' inheritance and put in a 750Xi with 650Xi as your second nav/com.

A GTN is going to sync up and work more seamlessly with the G3X than the GNSs.

Not sure of your transponder, but the 345 is very nice.

Note you're replying to an 8-month-old thread.

[Pinecone]

I had not seen it previously.  And someone else resurrected it.

[pagirard]

I apologize for the confusion, I'm the one who resurrected it to thank everyone for their contributions in helping us decide on our new panel. It took over 6 months to get the parts but the job finally started !

[PeteMc]

1 hour ago, pagirard said:

but the job finally started !

Excellent!  What was your final decision on what's getting installed?  And any availability issues?

 

[pagirard]

Just now, PeteMc said:

Excellent!  What was your final decision on what's getting installed?  And any availability issues?

 

We are going for G3xt, GTN750xi, G5 backup, GFC500 and 2 navs with GNC55A, GMA254A

so 1 certified WAAS GPS, one VFR GPS and 2 NAVs radios

 

We just brought the plane to the shop and it was teared down in short order, with vacuum pump and old avionics removed already, now the patience game start ...:)

[jlunseth]

We have had two posters on this site tell us about major failures in all-electronic systems. Don Kaye put up a thread just a few weeks ago where he experienced some kind of arcing and failure of everything on the buss. A couple of years ago someone posted that their dual-275 installation (where the HSI is supposed to act as redundancy for the ADI should the ADI fail) had entirely failed. Garmin was involved in figuring out what happened. There was some discussion that it might have been an installation error of some kind, but then as the pilot flying what difference does it make what the cause of the failure is. Some of us (me included) have concerns about the duration of the backup batteries incorporated in devices, the 275s I just had installed both have supposed 1 hr. backup batteries but the AFMS says that can drop as low as 30 min. in cold temps. The moral of the story is that you are building a system, and "redundancy" that depends on a single technology, for example electrical power, still gives you a single point of failure, which you definitely do not want if you fly IMC. I have lots of electronics, two GPS/radios, two 275s, transponder, etc. but I have kept a vacuum backup AI on my panel.

[Joshua Blackh4t]

Looks like lots of nice new toys.

I'd be very happy to have the old panel in my Mooney, but your new one will be amazing.

Are you selling off the old avionics? Particularly the Accutrak (with solenoid) and the 430?

Enjoy

[pagirard]

1 hour ago, Joshua Blackh4t said:

Looks like lots of nice new toys.

I'd be very happy to have the old panel in my Mooney, but your new one will be amazing.

Are you selling off the old avionics? Particularly the Accutrak (with solenoid) and the 430?

Enjoy

Yes, we will be selling the avionics, several people already interested in the 530w and 430w but you can PM me for the Accutrack

[gotyacovered]

Hi everyone,
I'm the proud co-owner (since last week) of a '74 M20E currently equipped with :

• Vaccum gauges (6 pack)
• 530W + 430W
• Accutrack autopilot
• GTX 327
• Basic fuel and engine monitor by Electronic International

And we decided we want to go all in a glass panel overall:

• G3x + primary engine monitor
• G5 backup
• GFC500
• GNT750Xi + GMA35

to help with the cost, we are thinking to re-sell/trade in the 530W and 430W but if we do that we loose the backup GPS and the 2nd radio.
We would prefer to keep the panel "consistent" and trade in the 430w. What would you guys recommend for a 2nd COM unit ? Should we keep the 430W ?
 
Our goal/mission is to have a capable IFR cross-country plane to fly the family and create memories.
This is the current panel:

 
 
Thanks in advance for your help
 
Pierre
 

I just bought this, but previous owner went with GNC 255A…


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