Flight time limit between annual inspection in an Ovation 2

[Mooncharlie]

Hi there! as a brand new ovation 2 gx (G1000) operator, i have some doubts regarding flight time between annual inspection. 

I think i have a confusion between 100hs inspection and annual, because i've read in the forum that some pilots fly their ovation above 100hs a year, changing just the oil every 50hs (or less), but is it written anywhere? does anybody know if there are time limit componentes that need to be taken care of every 100hs? I know if the magnetos need a check, or the air filter time, or some engine componentes regarding time it will need to visit the mechanic, but besides those cases is there a limit to fly between annual?

The panel in this case is G1000, so there is no problem with all the analog instruments.

Thanks!

Ariel

[carusoam]

Hey Ariel,

There is a 100hr inspection list…. That looks very much like the annual list…

100 hr inspections, you may find are more related to commercial ops if you use your plane that way…

See if you can find a copy of the Maintenance and parts manuals for your O…

it can be challenging for most people to fly 100hrs in a year… but some, do 3X that depending on how you get to use your plane….  

and for the G1000 vs old mechanical gauges… the oldest Os look analog… but many of the gauges are still digital at heart…

If you have a 60s M20C… there is an oil cup on the back of the tach that  gets forgotten… it is for lubricating the tach’s cable…

Some planes live outdoors… cleaning and lubrication more than annually is noticeable….

How is ownership going so far?

Pp thoughts only, not a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-

[StevenL757]

24 minutes ago, Mooncharlie said:

Hi there! as a brand new ovation 2 gx (G1000) operator, i have some doubts regarding flight time between annual inspection. 

I think i have a confusion between 100hs inspection and annual, because i've read in the forum that some pilots fly their ovation above 100hs a year, changing just the oil every 50hs (or less), but is it written anywhere? does anybody know if there are time limit componentes that need to be taken care of every 100hs? I know if the magnetos need a check, or the air filter time, or some engine componentes regarding time it will need to visit the mechanic, but besides those cases is there a limit to fly between annual?

The panel in this case is G1000, so there is no problem with all the analog instruments.

Thanks!

Ariel

A few things to know…

• There is no time limit between annual inspections for aircraft operated under CFR Part 91.  You can - technically - get about 13 months a year in between annual inspections.  For example, if you start your annual on the 30th of June, and it finishes on the 5th of July, your following year’s annual is good until 31-July.
• An annual inspection can be substituted for a 100-hour inspection, but a 100-hour inspection can NOT be substituted for an annual, so those of us operating under Part 91 (like 99.9% of us) shouldn’t concern ourselves with 100-hour inspections, as they don’t apply.
• Change your oil and filter every 25-30 hours or 3 months (whichever comes first) if those hours were accumulated flying longer trips (over about 2 hours).  Change oil and filter every 25 hours or three months (whichever comes first) if the hours were accumulated on shorter trips.  Do not let your oil changes go longer than this.  50-hour intervals on an Ovation, or longer than 3 months is unacceptable.  I don’t care what anyone tells you.  If you can afford an Ovation, you can afford 25-30 hour oil and filter changes.
• There are no items that need to be looked at every 100 hours…so long as you maintain the airplane, fly it by recommended procedures, and follow the oil and filter change schedule above.
• The induction air filter inspection happens every annual and has an AD to change at a regular interval, but is relatively inexpensive.
• Your magnetos should be inspected every 500 hours and repaired/overhauled as necessary.

Let us know if this helps…

Steve

[Mooncharlie]

58 minutes ago, carusoam said:

See if you can find a copy of the Maintenance and parts manuals for your O…

Thanks @carusoam for the reply, yes i search all the internet for a Maintenance manual for the Ovation, and still haven't found, i'll keep looking for it or maybe someone here posted or has it, will search harder.

 

56 minutes ago, StevenL757 said:

...

• An annual inspection can be substituted for a 100-hour inspection, but a 100-hour inspection can NOT be substituted for an annual, so those of us operating under Part 91 (like 99.9% of us) shouldn’t concern ourselves with 100-hour inspections, as they don’t apply.
• Change your oil and filter every 25-30 hours or 3 months (whichever comes first) if those hours were accumulated flying longer trips (over about 2 hours).  Change oil and filter every 25 hours or three months (whichever comes first) if the hours were accumulated on shorter trips.  Do not let your oil changes go longer than this.  50-hour intervals on an Ovation, or longer than 3 months is unacceptable.  I don’t care what anyone tells you.  If you can afford an Ovation, you can afford 25-30 hour oil and filter changes.
• There are no items that need to be looked at every 100 hours…so long as you maintain the airplane, fly it by recommended procedures, and follow the oil and filter change schedule above.

@StevenL757 thanks a lot for the clarification!, in my country the inspection regulations are simliar to FAA 91, but it says that we should comply with manufacturer anual and 100hs inspection plan. According to that, if there is a 100hs inspection for the Ovation, i should do it to keep the aircraft current, BUT if the mooney service manual says that the 100hs doesn't exist, or something like that inspection only apply to those flying outside Part 91 that would make the trick. 

Here are pretty basics in regulations, if the manual say to do the 100 hs we should, but if it doesn't we don't have to. 

There is an exception to the rule that says the following: "Anual inspection: it is understood by the one that the Manufacturer indicates in the Maintenance Manuals and that they comply with all the items prescribed in Appendix D of this Part and which are generically referred to as 100 hours; although for many manufacturers this occurs at 150, 200 and 300 hours..."

Regarding oil exchange, 25/30hs will be, of course, and the filter every 2 oil changes. 

 

Thanks a lot to both, and still finding the way to spend money in oil and fuel, and not in mechanic every 100hs 

 

Ariel

[PT20J]

Mooney provides recommendations for 100hr/annual inspections in the service manual and the attached checklist. Mooney leaves it to the owner/operator to determine what inspections are required under the regulations which may vary by country and type of operation.

I contacted Mooney and they sent me a service and maintenance manual pdf and also an illustrated parts catalog for my M20J at no charge a few years ago. Not sure what their policy is now, but for sure they have the documents.

Skip

100-HOURANNUAL-Inspection-Guide.pdf

[StevenL757]

1 hour ago, Mooncharlie said:

Regarding oil exchange, 25/30hs will be, of course, and the filter every 2 oil changes. 

Nooooo…..   :-)

Small correction…change the filter EVERY time you change the oil.  If not, you’re essentially defeating the purpose of the oil change.

[N201MKTurbo]

The filter would probably be effective through 10 oil changes. I’ve never seen one clogged to where it would bypass oil or deteriorated to where it would  allow unfiltered oil through. What are your concerns with not changing the filter? 
 

You know that all filters become more effective when they get a load of dirt in them. They continuously catch smaller and smaller particles until they cannot pass the normal flow and open the pressure bypass valve. 
 

If your concern is the oil in the filter, the Lycomings will drain all the oil out of the filter If you let it drain overnight. 

[N201MKTurbo]

I’ve studied filters a lot in my day job. 
 

I just went out a Googled this and found an overwhelming amount of opinions and suggestions. What I’ve failed to find is any real data.
 

It seems, with cars, the car manufactures suggest every other oil change and the people selling filters suggest every oil change. Still no data.

Sometimes the things that sound obvious, are not actually true.

Edited December 20, 2021 by N201MKTurbo

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Mooncharlie said:

Hi there! as a brand new ovation 2 gx (G1000) operator, i have some doubts regarding flight time between annual inspection. 

I think i have a confusion between 100hs inspection and annual, because i've read in the forum that some pilots fly their ovation above 100hs a year, changing just the oil every 50hs (or less), but is it written anywhere? does anybody know if there are time limit componentes that need to be taken care of every 100hs? I know if the magnetos need a check, or the air filter time, or some engine componentes regarding time it will need to visit the mechanic, but besides those cases is there a limit to fly between annual?

The panel in this case is G1000, so there is no problem with all the analog instruments.

Thanks!

Ariel

Chapter 4 &5 of the maintenance manual are your guides for required(chapter 4) and recommended (chapter 5) maintenance.

Clarence

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

The filter would probably be effective through 10 oil changes. I’ve never seen one clogged to where it would bypass oil or deteriorated to where it would  allow unfiltered oil through. What are your concerns with not changing the filter? 
 

You know that all filters become more effective when they get a load of dirt in them. They continuously catch smaller and smaller particles until they cannot pass the normal flow and open the pressure bypass valve. 
 

If your concern is the oil in the filter, the Lycomings will drain all the oil out of the filter If you let it drain overnight. 

The Mooney Maintenance Manual for the M20M that I had said on page 4-99 that every 25 hours the oil and oil filter should be changed. 

The Continental TSIO-550G manual on the airplane I have now says on page 5-12 that the filter should be changed at every oil change.

I want the filter cut open and checked every oil change. In the extremely rare event that metal is found I'd rather know about it.

If I was the guy that owned the airplane where this filter came from I'd rather not find out at the next oil change.

[N201MKTurbo]

33 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

The Mooney Maintenance Manual for the M20M that I had said on page 4-99 that every 25 hours the oil and oil filter should be changed. 

The Continental TSIO-550G manual on the airplane I have now says on page 5-12 that the filter should be changed at every oil change.

I want the filter cut open and checked every oil change. In the extremely rare event that metal is found I'd rather know about it.

If I was the guy that owned the airplane where this filter came from I'd rather not find out at the next oil change.

The Lycoming SI says that the 25 hour interval only applies to the TIO 541. All others are good for 50 hours. It sounds like the only reason to change the filter is to inspect it. It also requires inspecting the suction screen. Is that done at every oil change?

[carusoam]

Kind of a while you are in there situation….

If you have the dough to cover the added expense… which isn’t AMUs when bought by the dozen….

If it doesn’t cause maintenance induced failure…

If you know what you are looking at… or for….

If you are doing the work yourself… or somebody else is doing this for you…

 

Expect to see very little in the screen or filter… each time you cut one open…

Know as soon as possible, if there is a tsp of metal bits collecting in there….

typically, we are looking for cam lobes, bearing parts, and odd fastener bits that have been ground off…. When they shouldn’t be.

 

PP thoughts regarding oil filtration…

Best regards,

-a-

 

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

The Lycoming SI says that the 25 hour interval only applies to the TIO 541. All others are good for 50 hours. It sounds like the only reason to change the filter is to inspect it. It also requires inspecting the suction screen. Is that done at every oil change?

Back in the early to mid 90's when MAPA used to draw big attendance to the annual homecoming in Kerrville every fall Lycoming used to put on some good seminars. In the TLS forums, the Lycoming rep say that they did the testing on the TIO-540-AF1A  (before the AF1B Bravo engine) and that with the fuel flows as high as they were  (lead contamination) and excessive heat that the oil was not doing its job after 25 hours on that engine. Mooney put 25 hour oil changes in the maintenance manual on M20M's after that. Also in the late 90's Lycoming distributed an engine care booklet especially for Bravo and Piper Mirage (TIO-540-AE2A) owners where they recommended 25 hour oil changes, max of 1650 TIT and CHTs less than 400. The POH's never changed in either the Bravo or Mirage (1750 TIT and 460 CHT), but owners that didn't want to replace cylinders every few hundred hours paid attention. Since then most Bravo owners get TBO out of their engines.

[carusoam]

Interesting twist on the LOP vs. ROP conversation…

How dirty the oil can get during one or the other ops….   
 

I don’t have any insight in this one…

-a-

[Geoff]

13 hours ago, Mooncharlie said:

Hi there! as a brand new ovation 2 gx (G1000) operator, i have some doubts regarding flight time between annual inspection. 

I think i have a confusion between 100hs inspection and annual, because i've read in the forum that some pilots fly their ovation above 100hs a year, changing just the oil every 50hs (or less), but is it written anywhere? does anybody know if there are time limit componentes that need to be taken care of every 100hs? I know if the magnetos need a check, or the air filter time, or some engine componentes regarding time it will need to visit the mechanic, but besides those cases is there a limit to fly between annual?

The panel in this case is G1000, so there is no problem with all the analog instruments.

Thanks!

Ariel

Mooncharlie,

Under what regulations are you operating FAR's, EASA, CAA, SCAA, other?

The regulatory regime will determine how often you MUST perform inspections.

The Mooney maintenance manual will provide what SHOULD be done during those inspections.

The Pilot is responsible for deciding what WILL be done and when.

I am not trying to be pedantic, sometimes it is necessary to ask more questions before providing the right answers.  There is a tremendously helpful group on this board that is eager to share their knowledge.

Geoff

[StevenL757]

16 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

The Lycoming SI says that the 25 hour interval only applies to the TIO 541. All others are good for 50 hours. It sounds like the only reason to change the filter is to inspect it. It also requires inspecting the suction screen. Is that done at every oil change?

The OP owns an Ovation, so the Lycoming information wouldn't apply obviously.

[LANCECASPER]

16 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

The Lycoming SI says that the 25 hour interval only applies to the TIO 541. All others are good for 50 hours. It sounds like the only reason to change the filter is to inspect it. It also requires inspecting the suction screen. Is that done at every oil change?

Sorry, not true. This applies to the TIO-540-AF1A & AF1B in the TLS and TLB Bravo respectively.

 

Here's the entire Service Bulletin 480F:

https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/SB480F Oil ServicingMetallic Solids Identification After Oil Servicing and Associated Corrective Action.pdf

[A64Pilot]

Running LOP and with modern oils in temperate climates etc., do you hanger or tie out etc,  you might could even go 100 hours between changes and or 6 months or longer before the oil actually”needs” changing based say on TAN and TBN from analysis.

Howevef oil is at its best the moment it pours from the bottle, from that moment on its degrading, some may want to wait until it’s actually no longer providing essential lubrication, many want to change well before then and buy additional cushion, couple that with compared to other aircraft expenses and the fact that a pilot can do this themselves often leads to very short intervals, and sometimes these shorter intervals may help detect problems before they become critical and or expensive.

So is a 25 hour OCI required? Usually not. Will it hurt anything? No. can it help? usually not, but it could, and it certainly won’t cause harm.

Finally which aircraft would you buy, one with a 3 month OCI in the books or one with a 50 hour OCI whenever it took to reach 50 hours? 

 

For whatever it’s worth the US Army decades ago went to analysis to determine when the oil needed changing on its trucks etc. The OCI went from even 6 months to now often years between changes