Key Lime Air Swearingen SA-226 Metro II and Cirrus SR-22 mid air collision

[afward]

Just now, gsxrpilot said:

CAPS min alt is 400 ft. But I would be a little hesitant to pull the chute on my base to final turn. That would be pretty low.

Ha, yeah...  Pretty sure we agree there.  I'd rather belly in a flyable airplane than pull the chute below limits.

[toto]

I can't help but think this was an incredibly stressful and frightening event for the Cirrus pilot. You have a few seconds to process the fact that you just had a mid-air collision and you're not dead, then a few seconds to process the fact that you're still sort of flying. There's probably a bunch of noise and vibration and you're certain that the plane is messed up but you aren't sure how badly or what it means for controllability. 

I think one of the things that makes the parachute successful in these cases is that the pilot's reptilian brain can basically go "pull the big red handle" and then just pass out from sensory overload.

[RJBrown]

12 hours ago, DXB said:

I'm guessing that fracture through the tail happened from the midair and not hitting the ground under chute, which generally doesn't rupture the airframe that way?  Doesn't look all that flyable to me.

 

 

Watch the video of the plane coming down. It was swinging wildly and hit tail first. Damage came after. Probably safer to pop the chute than to land on gear that had gone through another airplane. Better to belly in than land on broken gear. It could have been like a fixed gear water landing. Unpredictable at best. 
This plane did appear more intact than the Key Lime aircraft.

[cbarry]

The first thing that came to mind after seeing the damage to the Key Lime plane was: dang that plane would have been extremely difficult to spot from slightly above!  In a few months when the ground cover is burnt to a crisp, that lime green color would be very easy to make out.  However, at this time of year, I bet it blends in as well as a Desert Storm aircraft over the sands of Iraq!  Of course, the reality is that if the Cirrus would have been where it was supposed to be, it wouldn’t have mattered if the KeyLime aircraft was just a radar attenuation the Cirrus wouldn’t have caused flight path interference. Regardless, all people involved are Blessed to have survived and should feel very thankful to be here another day!

Edited May 14, 2021 by cbarry

[midlifeflyer]

14 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

I shouldn't say "all" traffic. But there is a lot of airspace under various controls stretching to the north east. So my experience has been that coming from the east or specifically north east, I have to either fly south and then join the left downwind for 17R or even if IFR, cross KDEN right over the center of the airport and then an approach from the north.

I have come from the east by staying under the Bravo (6500) but above the grass (5800) and then through the AFB Delta. But it's a tight squeeze.

I dunno. Maybe things have changed, The most common instruction I received when inbound from the east and APA was landing south was,.  "Report Parker and Arapahoe."  If the first call-in was further out, it would be  "Report Aurora Reservoir," or  "Report the Radome, but one of those was usually where we called in VFR, so ultimately it was as about "Parker and Arapahoe."  Bravo along that route is  no lower than 8,000 and no real reason to be higher if coming in for landing. Once there it would be a simple left base along Arapahoe Rd or, if things were busier, they'd turn us northwest to the center of Chery Creek Reservoir.. It wasn't a big deal at all to keep outside Buckley. 

I don't think I ever got a crossover or downwind entry to land to the south unless, of course, I was inbound from a position where a simple 45 to downwind or downwind join made sense.

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by midlifeflyer

[midlifeflyer]

3 hours ago, cbarry said:

The first thing that came to mind after seeing the damage to the Key Lime plane was: dang that plane would have been extremely difficult to spot from slightly above!  In a few months when the ground cover is burnt to a crisp, that lime green color would be very easy to make out.  However, at this time of year, I bet it blends in as well as a Desert Storm aircraft over the sands of Iraq!  Of course, the reality is that if the Cirrus would have been where it was supposed to be, it wouldn’t have mattered if the KeyLime aircraft was just a radar attenuation the Cirrus wouldn’t have caused flight path interference. Regardless, all people involved are Blessed to have survived and should feel very thankful to be here another day!

That's the bottom line. I've seen people focus on the distance between the parallels as a factor, but based on the tracks I saw and my familiarity with the airspace, whatever the reason, the Cirrus was flying the pattern way too fast. Period. It was in the process of overshooting both runways, The Cirrus would have completed its turn east of 17L if it hadn't hit something first, so greater distance between them would have been irrelevant except maybe  to give more time for ATC to see what it was doing and turn it away, but I doubt it.  

[aviatoreb]

On 5/12/2021 at 5:51 PM, apenney said:

 

 

 

 

 

I am shocked by that photo - I am amazed and shocked that the airplane we are looking at did not break into two pieces.  I thought these kinds of airplanes needed that tensioned tube that is the body for structure.  But I guess this is all wrong since by what I see it must all be supported by a beam along the bottom.  ...not knowing what I am talking about.  but wow I would have guessed that the tail section would just fall off with that much damage.  Knock on wood and good job and good fortune everyone.

[RJBrown]

Both aircraft came in from the west.

‘Key Lime was IFR from the southwest. He was above 20,000’ over the mountains. Center always keeps you high and toward Falcon VOR. After handoff to approach he gives you the decent through the class B and directs you to Cherry Creek Reservoir for the visual 17 left and hands you off to tower. Almost all IFR landings are from the south to Rwy 35R unless winds are strong.
The Cirrus came in from the north west. He should have gone just south of Hampden Ave (hwy285) the line between 8,000 and 10,000 on the class B. Then proceed due east just south of Hampden reporting in to tower at Colorado Blvd, no later than Interstate 25. I would expect the tower to say “direct Cherry Creek Reservoir expect 17R”. By arrival a the reservoir I would have slowed to 100 or less and be at TPA of 6880 ready to turn R to final. The tower would call out traffic after you “have traffic” tower would “cleared to land 17R follow the 172” (there is always a 172 in the pattern for 17R) I would then Turn right, drop the gear and follow the VASI.

There was no reason for him to be south of airport. No reason to be below TPA or above 100 knots at arrival within the class D.

The Cirrus pilot showed extremely poor airmanship start to finish. Way too fast, too low, should not have used a downwind. His downwind was not parallel and All turns were sloppy. 

Centennial is one of the top 10 private airports in the country with 330,000 operation per year. There is no excuse for anyone based there to fly like he did. Either poor training by the “Cirrus Training Center” that rented him the airplane or he was just an entitled jerk that didn’t care about anyone else.

This was Not a mistake this was a pattern of poor piloting and poor decision making.

Yes I’ve made mistakes we all have no one is perfect. 
BUT:

That is why we fly proper procedures. That’s why we don’t intentionally cut corners. That is why I’ve been so hard on this guy. It was not an “accident” it was a consequence of established patterns.

I posted about a girl that crashed a 172 late at night into the street 1000’ east of Stellar Airpark. After a long flight from Dallas she accidentally lined up on the wrong string of lights. She flew a stabilized approach but ended up upside down but alive.

She can learn from her mistake, we all can. I would encourage her not to quit. Her accident is one we can all imagine.

first time into Gateway airport late at night in the dark I was cleared to land 30Left I lined up on 30Center. I lost the left runway among the taxiway lights. Fortunately the controller recognized where I was aimed and cleared me to the center runway. She then had me stay with her for turn by turn into the ramp. She was alone in the tower and I was the only plane in the area. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by RJBrown
Correct 42k to 330,000 operations

[EricJ]

6 hours ago, cbarry said:

The first thing that came to mind after seeing the damage to the Key Lime plane was: dang that plane would have been extremely difficult to spot from slightly above!  In a few months when the ground cover is burnt to a crisp, that lime green color would be very easy to make out.  However, at this time of year, I bet it blends in as well as a Desert Storm aircraft over the sands of Iraq!  Of course, the reality is that if the Cirrus would have been where it was supposed to be, it wouldn’t have mattered if the KeyLime aircraft was just a radar attenuation the Cirrus wouldn’t have caused flight path interference. Regardless, all people involved are Blessed to have survived and should feel very thankful to be here another day!

In the ATC recordings the Cirrus pilot reported that he had the metroliner in sight.

[David Lloyd]

One factor no has mentioned is how close the parallel runways are to each other.  What, about 1000'? 1500'?  Back when CLT began IFR operations to parallel runways, there was a lot of discussion and procedures put in place.  36L (now C due to the 3rd runway added) and 36R are about 4000' apart.  1000' Leaves little margin for error.

[cbarry]

50 minutes ago, EricJ said:

In the ATC recordings the Cirrus pilot reported that he had the metroliner in sight.

Actually, the Cirrus pilot did not say he had the Metro in sight.  He said he had traffic in sight.  You tell me, was he just repeating himself that he the first traffic in sight (the Cessna) or did he in fact have the Metro in sight as well?

[EricJ]

Just now, cbarry said:

Actually, the Cirrus pilot did not say he had the Metro in sight.  He said he had traffic in sight.  You tell me, was he just repeating himself that he the first traffic in sight (the Cessna) or did he in fact have the Metro in sight as well?

He indicated he had traffic in sight immediately after being told of the relative location of the metroliner traffic.   The Cessna was in a different location relative to him, and he had previously acknowledged that traffic separately.

It's certainly possible this was a mistake that he had made.   FWIW, I think an aircraft painted dark blue, like many are, would be much harder to see than the metroliner, and there are plenty of warbirds and faux-warbirds flying around with camo paint.   I don't personally think the color would have been a factor and it's bright enough (lime!) that it probably should have helped.

 

[EricJ]

24 minutes ago, David Lloyd said:

One factor no has mentioned is how close the parallel runways are to each other.  What, about 1000'? 1500'?  Back when CLT began IFR operations to parallel runways, there was a lot of discussion and procedures put in place.  36L (now C due to the 3rd runway added) and 36R are about 4000' apart.  1000' Leaves little margin for error.

I suspect that 1000' is not unusual for parallel runway separation.   My home field, KDVT, is one of the busiest (and sometimes the busiest) GA airport in the country, with parallel runways and 700' separation.   You're very often taking off and landing with somebody else just off your wingtip, including jets, turboprops, students, warbirds, whatever.

[Parker_Woodruff]

On 5/12/2021 at 5:10 PM, smwash02 said:

 

Just thinking about this situation from a liability perspective, I wonder if the typical 1MM policy would be enough to fully cover this. If they total the Metroliner, I suspect not. @Parker_Woodruff, any thoughts?

 

Tough call - never know if they'll settle within the policy limits or try for higher.

[cbarry]

57 minutes ago, EricJ said:

He indicated he had traffic in sight immediately after being told of the relative location of the metroliner traffic.   The Cessna was in a different location relative to him, and he had previously acknowledged that traffic separately.

It's certainly possible this was a mistake that he had made.   FWIW, I think an aircraft painted dark blue, like many are, would be much harder to see than the metroliner, and there are plenty of warbirds and faux-warbirds flying around with camo paint.   I don't personally think the color would have been a factor and it's bright enough (lime!) that it probably should have helped.

 

The facts will prove out.

[gsxrpilot]

2 hours ago, David Lloyd said:

One factor no has mentioned is how close the parallel runways are to each other.  What, about 1000'? 1500'?  Back when CLT began IFR operations to parallel runways, there was a lot of discussion and procedures put in place.  36L (now C due to the 3rd runway added) and 36R are about 4000' apart.  1000' Leaves little margin for error.

It's not just the 1000' between them that provides separation. The thresholds are 2000' apart as well. 

And in a very busy metro airspace, with lots of Deltas close to each other and various Bravo shelf's hanging over everything, two stadium TFR's, and rising terrain very close by, you don't launch into the sky here in the Denver area without knowing where you are and where you are supposed to be, at all times. 

There's no excuse for the Cirrus pilot in this environment.

[Shadrach]

On 5/13/2021 at 5:24 PM, DXB said:

I'm guessing that fracture through the tail happened from the midair and not hitting the ground under chute, which generally doesn't rupture the airframe that way?  Doesn't look all that flyable to me.

 

 

The video was grainy, But it looks to me as though the airframe was intact  before touchdown.  It hit hard and tail low. Seems like an odd place to snap a fuselage in midair. Maybe the vertical stab at the Metroliner cut it in half.

 

[midlifeflyer]

7 hours ago, RJBrown said:

Centennial is one of the top 10 private airports in the country with 42,000 operation per year. 

Just to clarify. It is a public airport (owned by the county) with over 300,000 operations per year (almost 350,000 in 2019) , although it has no scheduled airline ops. It is generally in the top 3 or 4 GA airports (#1 in 2019) and in the top 30 of all airports in the US in total operations (#23 in 2019). 

Edited May 15, 2021 by midlifeflyer

[EricJ]

25 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

Just to clarify. It is a public airport (owned by the county) with over 300,000 operations per year (almost 350,000 in 2019) , although it has no scheduled airline ops. It is generally in the top 3 or 4 GA airports (#1 in 2019) and in the top 30 of all airports in the US in total operations (#23 in 2019). 

The really busy airports tend to get their capacity from parallel runways, and sometimes they're spaced pretty close.   In the list below, they all have parallel runways except Long Beach.    Grand Forks' parallel runways have enormous separation, which is rare, and Gillespie has parallel runways in the E-W direction but not N-S.

FWIW, three of the ten in the list are local to us in the Phoenix area and Prescott Love isn't very far away.   We get a lot of traffic here. 

Excessive speed and even a little bit of sloppiness will definitely add risk in such an environment.   

https://generalaviationnews.com/2020/02/03/top-10-busiest-general-aviation-airports/

[midlifeflyer]

Just now, EricJ said:

FWIW, three of the ten in the list are local to us in the Phoenix area and Prescott Love isn't very far away.   We get a lot of traffic here. 

The top GA airports also tend to be in areas with a lot of good weather. Go figure! 

[RJBrown]

Thanks midlifeflier I must have missed something. Went back and looked at the website. That number was private jet operations at Centennial in one year. Back when I was based there I remember seeing a fuel sales report. The jet fuel users were 1/7 of the numbers but over 75% of the fuel sales.
And Eric,

I didn’t realize we had that many of the top ten here. That said it is amazing is how dead the airspace is at 2am considering how active the valley of the sun is.

I couldn’t sleep this morning so I went on  https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a989df this morning and  there was one 172 and 5 helicopters flying in the whole Phoenix metro. It was kind of cool watching the airspace wake up. One police chopper circling where the 60 and the17 meet and 4 medical choppers. I could see about a dozen on the ground at PHX and IWA.

[EricJ]

Just now, RJBrown said:

And Eric,

I didn’t realize we had that many of the top ten here. That said it is amazing is how dead the airspace is at 2am considering how active the valley of the sun is.

I couldn’t sleep this morning so I went on  https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a989df this morning and  there was one 172 and 5 helicopters flying in the whole Phoenix metro. It was kind of cool watching the airspace wake up. One police chopper circling where the 60 and the17 meet and 4 medical choppers. I could see about a dozen on the ground at PHX and IWA.

I usually have a flightradar24 tab open on my desktop and have Scottsdale tower on a scanner in my office.  Traffic drops off pretty fast in the evening.   There is definitely a big contrast between day and night.

 

[midlifeflyer]

8 hours ago, RJBrown said:

Thanks midlifeflier I must have missed something. Went back and looked at the website. That number was private jet operations at Centennial in one year. Back when I was based there I remember seeing a fuel sales report. The jet fuel users were 1/7 of the numbers but over 75% of the fuel sales.

I wondered. Assuming we used the same source (I use https://aspm.faa.gov/opsnet/sys/Airport.asp) at first I thought you might have pulled up 2020 when I would expect a reduction  in the numbers. That's why I used 2019. Then I pulled up 2020 and found that, as a GA airport, APA still had over 300,000 ops while the commercial airports were down, moving it to #8 of all US airports. (DVT was #5!)

[A64Pilot]

20 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

I am shocked by that photo - I am amazed and shocked that the airplane we are looking at did not break into two pieces.  I thought these kinds of airplanes needed that tensioned tube that is the body for structure.  But I guess this is all wrong since by what I see it must all be supported by a beam along the bottom.  ...not knowing what I am talking about.  but wow I would have guessed that the tail section would just fall off with that much damage.  Knock on wood and good job and good fortune everyone.

Most of transport aircrafts strength is in the floor so that it can handle cargo and people, that floor as well as carrying the weight has to also restrain those people and cargo so it’s pretty tough, the rest of the fuselage’s primary job is be a pressure vessel and aerodynamics, but I imagine an aircraft with overhead baggage compartments has to be a whole lot stronger, case that’s a lot of weight, and the design loads are quite high. I assume the Metro liner has no overhead baggage?

[toto]

1 hour ago, A64Pilot said:

Most of transport aircrafts strength is in the floor so that it can handle cargo and people, that floor as well as carrying the weight has to also restrain those people and cargo so it’s pretty tough, the rest of the fuselage’s primary job is be a pressure vessel and aerodynamics, but I imagine an aircraft with overhead baggage compartments has to be a whole lot stronger, case that’s a lot of weight, and the design loads are quite high. I assume the Metro liner has no overhead baggage?

I keep thinking that we're looking at the Swearingen after it has landed --- it may be that the initial damage didn't look so severe, but it was subjected to crazy aerodynamic forces during the remainder of the short flight, which caused a lot of the metal deformation that we see. It makes me think that the only thing that saved the Metro aircraft was being relatively slow and on a final approach. He might have had only seconds left before losing major structural components and having an uncontrollable aircraft.