New motor mounts, still saggy

[dogbocks]

Hey guys, Just installed 4 new Lord mounts to fix my saggy IO-550. Well, after getting it all back together, the motor is in the exact same place.

I am wondering if anyone else has had this happen? I am thinking maybe spacers under the lower engine mounts where it attaches to the firewall would be the fix?

I was going to get in touch with a MSC and see what they think, but figured I would see if anyone here had any ideas. 

Pic is after new mounts are installed

. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by dogbocks

[skykrawler]

There used to be a write up on Maxwell's site.

[MIm20c]

Call laser and ask for two shims. Put them under the front lord mounts.  Problem solved.  
 

Nice Mooney by the way, Bob is a great guy and a trustworthy seller. 

[hypertech]

6 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

Call laser and ask for two shims. Put them under the front lord mounts.  Problem solved.  
 

Nice Mooney by the way, Bob is a great guy and a trustworthy seller. 

Has anyone actually done this on an Ovation and had it work?  I also replaced my mounts when I did an overhaul and the engine is in the exact same place.  I've been told its normal and can't be shimmed by two MSCs.

[PT20J]

Is it the cowling? On the M20Js my cowling is perfect when installed, but moves up and aft at the top after flight messing up the alignment. 

Skip

[ArtVandelay]

Call laser and ask for two shims. Put them under the front lord mounts.  Problem solved.  
 
Nice Mooney by the way, Bob is a great guy and a trustworthy seller. 

You make that sound easy. With Mooney you pull the mount/frame and engine off as 1 piece then pull them apart. I don’t think you can just pull the lower engine mount bolts and slide them in.

[MIm20c]

18 minutes ago, hypertech said:

Has anyone actually done this on an Ovation and had it work?  I also replaced my mounts when I did an overhaul and the engine is in the exact same place.  I've been told its normal and can't be shimmed by two MSCs.

Yes and Yes, perfectly centered now. Probably the same MSC’s that claim it’s impossible to increase the FF on the 310 upgrade over 26 gph. 

7 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

You make that sound easy. With Mooney you pull the mount/frame and engine off as 1 piece then pull them apart. I don’t think you can just pull the lower engine mount bolts and slide them in.

Frame stays on the aircraft. No different than replacing the lord mounts, just add a shim to each side in the front. it doesn’t take much…I think the shim is 1/4 inch thick. 

[jaylw314]

35 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

You make that sound easy. With Mooney you pull the mount/frame and engine off as 1 piece then pull them apart. I don’t think you can just pull the lower engine mount bolts and slide them in.

I had that done last year during annual.  Not sure if it's easier or harder withan IO-360, but the shop said it's still fairly challenging, it doesn't give you anywhere near as much room as you think it would.

[dogbocks]

Ok talked to LASAR (my local MSC) and they said to just add another 600364-7 washer on each front engine mount (right side will have 2, left will have 1) and that should do it. Just need to go to the airport and measure that washer and figure out what size it is, if I don't get a call back from Lasar or DMA.

Also the -50 bolts might have to be swapped for -52 to make sure they are still long enough with added washers. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by dogbocks

[hypertech]

When my mounts were new, they put up a hell of a fight to put those bolts in.  I wonder if it would be easier now that they have some time on them.  I think I may go call my MSC and see if they concur.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

You make that sound easy. With Mooney you pull the mount/frame and engine off as 1 piece then pull them apart. I don’t think you can just pull the lower engine mount bolts and slide them in.

Continental engines are a different installation than your Lycoming.

Clarence

[MIm20c]

52 minutes ago, hypertech said:

When my mounts were new, they put up a hell of a fight to put those bolts in.  I wonder if it would be easier now that they have some time on them.  I think I may go call my MSC and see if they concur.

Nope, it’ll be another workout to get them in.  Even after a few hundred hours it was a pain and I’m glad I was there to help the IA get it back together.  However, as aviation projects go it was a simple project. 

[carusoam]

Wait...

Hold up...

is that a hartzell TopProp?

If yes...

That isn’t sag.

That is a spinner that is about a half inch too small in diameter...

We probably need a class action lawsuit to get anything out Hartzell for that... 

Mine has looked like that since 2012... after spending about 65 amu...

I asked Hartzell about this...  looks like nothing has changed...

They said at the time they were working on a different diameter spinner...never heard from them again...

Do they not know Mooney owners pride themselves on aerodynamics...  

Best regards,

-a-

[carusoam]

7 hours ago, hypertech said:

Has anyone actually done this on an Ovation and had it work?  I also replaced my mounts when I did an overhaul and the engine is in the exact same place.  I've been told its normal and can't be shimmed by two MSCs.

It is what it is... but it isn’t normal...

See the explanation above.

Best regards,

-a-

[carusoam]

Are new Mooneys being delivered with the same step?

@Davidv any insight on this decade old challenge?

Best regards,

-a-

[MIm20c]

6 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Wait...

Hold up...

is that a hartzell TopProp?

If yes...

That isn’t sag.

That is a spinner that is about a half inch too small in diameter...

We probably need a class action lawsuit to get anything out Hartzell for that... 

Mine has looked like that since 2012... after spending about 65 amu...

I asked Hartzell about this...  looks like nothing has changed...

They said at the time they were working on a different diameter spinner...never heard from them again...

Do they not know Mooney owners pride themselves on aerodynamics...  

Best regards,

-a-

I’m not sure why but the old two blade and larger spinner never had the problem of not being exactly centered to the cowling.  However, as soon as the top prop was installed 2008 ish it always looked low/sag. It might be the extra weight of the prop, I’m not sure. It has remained stationary for thousands of hours and does not center itself in flight.  The shims make the “step” from the spinner to the cowling exactly the same around the circumference. 

[carusoam]

1 minute ago, MIm20c said:

I’m not sure why but the old two blade and larger spinner never had the problem of not being exactly centered to the cowling.  However, as soon as the top prop was installed 2008 ish it always looked low/sag. It might be the extra weight of the prop, I’m not sure. It has remained stationary for thousands of hours and does not center itself in flight.  The shims make the “step” from the spinner to the cowling exactly the same around the circumference. 

Mine has about 1/4” step all the way around... since it was installed in 2012...

before that it had a three blade Mac that was perfectly aligned...

All old memories that may not represent reality any longer...

Best regards,

 -a-

[MIm20c]

Just now, carusoam said:

Mine has about 1/4” step all the way around... since it was installed in 2012...

before that it had a Mac that was perfectly aligned...

All old memories that may not represent reality any longer...

Best regards,

 -a-

For some reason I’ve seen it a lot more on the 99-2003 vintage birds…not sure. 

[carusoam]

Mine was bourn in 94... and reborn in 2012...

-a-

[Guest]

It is a bit low, the back of the spinner and the front of the cowl are not parallel.  A shim may help but won’t change the diameter.

Clarence

[Niko182]

7 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

You make that sound easy. With Mooney you pull the mount/frame and engine off as 1 piece then pull them apart. I don’t think you can just pull the lower engine mount bolts and slide them in.

The lycoming is attached to the aircraft from the back. On the TCM's the engine sits on the entire engine frame mount.

[Niko182]

8 hours ago, dogbocks said:

Hey guys, Just installed 4 new Lord mounts to fix my saggy IO-550. Well, after getting it all back together, the motor is in the exact same place.

I am wondering if anyone else has had this happen? I am thinking maybe spacers under the lower engine mounts where it attaches to the firewall would be the fix?

I was going to get in touch with a MSC and see what they think, but figured I would see if anyone here had any ideas. 

Pic is after new mounts are installed

. 

I did my mounts 2 weeks ago. Prop sits higher than it did, but its exactly the same as in your pictures. I have the identical setup as you in my eagle.

[dogbocks]

52 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Wait...

Hold up...

is that a hartzell TopProp?

If yes...

That isn’t sag.

That is a spinner that is about a half inch too small in diameter...

We probably need a class action lawsuit to get anything out Hartzell for that... 

Mine has looked like that since 2012... after spending about 65 amu...

I asked Hartzell about this...  looks like nothing has changed...

They said at the time they were working on a different diameter spinner...never heard from them again...

Do they not know Mooney owners pride themselves on aerodynamics...  

Best regards,

-a-

If you look closely, you can see the bottom of the spinner is lined up with the cowling and the top isn't, also the back of the spinner and cowling are not parallel. Its not an issue of the spinner being too small. 

Mooney in Kernville has some quantity of that 600364-7 washer. 2 are on the way to me care of LASAR. I will get them installed sometime in the next few weeks and update this thread. 

 

But yes this is a 3 blade Hartzell on an airplane that originally came from the factory with a 2 blade McCulley 

Edited April 30, 2021 by dogbocks

[dogbocks]

8 hours ago, MIm20c said:

Call laser and ask for two shims. Put them under the front lord mounts.  Problem solved.  
 

Nice Mooney by the way, Bob is a great guy and a trustworthy seller. 

Yep that seemed to be the fix, thanks!

[dogbocks]

14 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

I did my mounts 2 weeks ago. Prop sits higher than it did, but its exactly the same as in your pictures. I have the identical setup as you in my eagle.

Interesting, well call your MSC and order a couple 600364-7 washers and that should fix it, I will let you know when I get mine on, might wait until the next oil change though.