Hank Posted October 4, 2020 Report Posted October 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, 270win said: Good reply, I’m 50 and have had rotator cuff surgery. Are there any known issues with the electric gear? The biggest issue with electric gear is when the loose nut in the front seat forgets to move the little switch. Seems to happen at the same frequency that pilots of older Mooneys forget to move that big handle . . . . Meanwhile, with electric gear, all of that floorspace can be used for storage. I used to keep sectionals, lunch and a beverage between the seats, and bound approach plates stacked sideways under the throttle. Manual gear planes need to keep this space clear to lower and raise that big steel handle. Now, I still carry food and beverages on the floor between the seats. 1 Quote
carusoam Posted October 4, 2020 Report Posted October 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, 270win said: Good reply, I’m 50 and have had rotator cuff surgery. Are there any known issues with the electric gear? Nothing tremendously outstanding... wear on 50 year old planes can give several examples of everything breaking... there once was a spring part that had a bunch of bad springs... installed... that was a pain... manufacturing of the springs got updated... There may be one motor drive that is better than the other... I don’t remember what motor drive I have in my plane... if it stops working there is a mechanical back-up that works fine... Often, one of the first things a new owner does... cleans old grease out of every thing that is a gear box or jack screw... old grease has a tendency to turn into rocks... If you like to be hands on... this stuff can be cleaned and re-lubed to perfection... Hank, unfortunately has pointed out the biggest challenge... it’s not with the machine... it’s in the machine... Best regards, -a- Quote
The Other Red Baron Posted October 4, 2020 Report Posted October 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Hank said: The biggest issue with electric gear is when the loose nut in the front seat forgets to move the little switch. Seems to happen at the same frequency that pilots of older Mooneys forget to move that big handle . . . . Meanwhile, with electric gear, all of that floorspace can be used for storage. I used to keep sectionals, lunch and a beverage between the seats, and bound approach plates stacked sideways under the throttle. Manual gear planes need to keep this space clear to lower and raise that big steel handle. Now, I still carry food and beverages on the floor between the seats. This realization finally hit me on our last trip. Wife kept trying to shove food down in that area... I don't know how manual gear drivers forget about that bar because that is my speed break! 2 Quote
Hank Posted October 4, 2020 Report Posted October 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, The Other Red Baron said: This realization finally hit me on our last trip. Wife kept trying to shove food down in that area... I don't know how manual gear drivers forget about that bar because that is my speed break! Flaps are my speed brake, gear starts the descent. VFR, gear down abeam intended landing point. IFR, gear down when the glideslope is 1-1/2 dots high will bring me down centered with no other changes. Quote
270win Posted October 4, 2020 Author Report Posted October 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, carusoam said: Nothing tremendously outstanding... wear on 50 year old planes can give several examples of everything breaking... there once was a spring part that had a bunch of bad springs... installed... that was a pain... manufacturing of the springs got updated... There may be one motor drive that is better than the other... I don’t remember what motor drive I have in my plane... if it stops working there is a mechanical back-up that works fine... Often, one of the first things a new owner does... cleans old grease out of every thing that is a gear box or jack screw... old grease has a tendency to turn into rocks... If you like to be hands on... this stuff can be cleaned and re-lubed to perfection... Best regards, -a- That’s a good point, my 182 was a 1962 E model...lots of catch up work was done when I first got it. Quote
270win Posted October 4, 2020 Author Report Posted October 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Hank said: Flaps are my speed brake, gear starts the descent. VFR, gear down abeam intended landing point. IFR, gear down when the glideslope is 1-1/2 dots high will bring me down centered with no other changes. Good tip, what m.p. do you run from the faf in on an ils? Assuming prop full forward? Quote
carusoam Posted October 4, 2020 Report Posted October 4, 2020 Speaking of procedures... and best ways to get trained on all things Mooney Ops... including best speeds and power settings and configurations... There is an organization called Mapa... they typically organize awesome training weekends around the US, usually quarterly... Covid has probably gotten in the way of this this year... For Transition Training there are severally high end CFIIs that train specifically with Mooney pilots... Its really cool to see someone who really knows the plane you are flying... even in a C152... Many of those CFIIs can be found listed in something called the MooneyFlyer... To rent a Mooney can be good... but, there are only a few around the country that are easily available... -a- Quote
Hank Posted October 4, 2020 Report Posted October 4, 2020 Just now, 270win said: Good tip, what m.p. do you run from the faf in on an ils? Assuming prop full forward? I'm generally 2300, and power for 105-110 mph, call it ~18" or a little more. In IMC, I'm a coward and don't mind going slow. My general low flight is 23"/2300, so I fly where I'm comfortable and know what to expect. Mid-level power is often 22"/2400, so that's another option, but at reduced power, if I'm trundling along at 4000-5000 msl outside the FAF. On my checkride in VMC, I was coming down the glideslope into CRW right on 90 knots when a Lear checked in behind me and was asked to reduce speed by 50 knots due to preceding traffic on the ILS at 80 knots. After confirming with the DPE that the slowpoke was us, I asked if I should speed up some. He said, sure, let's see what you can do. So I cleaned up and came down at 130 mph before slowing to drop the gear and touch-n-go for Approach Type #3 at an outlying field (VOR-A to a one-way at night field, due to a hill in the way on final approach). Quote
270win Posted October 4, 2020 Author Report Posted October 4, 2020 1 minute ago, carusoam said: Speaking of procedures... and best ways to get trained on all things Mooney Ops... including best speeds and power settings and configurations... There is an organization called Mapa... they typically organize awesome training weekends around the US, usually quarterly... Covid has probably gotten in the way of this this year... For Transition Training there are severally high end CFII that train specifically for Mooney pilots... Its really cool to see someone who really knows the plane you are flying... even in a C152... Many of those CFIIs can be found listed in something called the MooneyFlyer... To rent a Mooney can be good... but, there are only a few around the country that are easily available... -a- I definitely want to get model specific training on any airplane I purchase. Quote
carusoam Posted October 4, 2020 Report Posted October 4, 2020 Wringing out maximum performance is a blast... Doing things safely is very important... Having the training stick with you is key... -a- Quote
270win Posted October 4, 2020 Author Report Posted October 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, carusoam said: Wringing out maximum performance is a blast... Doing things safely is very important... Having the training stick with you is key... -a- Yep, 100% agree. Quote
270win Posted October 4, 2020 Author Report Posted October 4, 2020 16 hours ago, carusoam said: 1) If you like speed and efficiency... Go Mooney! 2) If you like the most stable platform for IFR flight... Go Mooney! 3) If you like the idea of flying the fastest, Factory built, four seat, airplane.... Go Mooney! 4) I could go and make this a full list of 10 items that would make you even more interested... but I digress.... Lets work on the selection process... 5) Longer airframes fit the people more comfortably... 6) Turbocharging the engine increases the capability... 7) All Mooneys can be updated with tons of various nav com And display equipment... Taking the work out of building your own... 8) Find somebody selling their forever plane.... 9) Forever planes get taken care of really well and get updates that aren’t necessarily Economically sensible.. 10) Once you go Mooney, you never leave... until turbines, Twins, or six seaters call your name... darn... I made another top 10 list while digressing.... How can MS help you reach your next level? NA engines make a lot of sense for 300nm trips... Short body Mooneys make great retirement planes... Mid Body Mooneys are great when you have full grown adults in the back like your finance administrator... Turbos and TNs are great if you like to be a modern sailor... Take a look at the M20F posted above... it has a lot of features like somebody’s Forever plane... but, and fortunately, Stephen is still with us... his business is growing quickly too... Best regards, -a- Great breakdown. I like the idea of the stretched models in the rare event that there's more than 1 or 2 people on board. Quote
Paul_Havelka Posted October 4, 2020 Report Posted October 4, 2020 15 hours ago, 270win said: I definitely want to get model specific training on any airplane I purchase. Well if you don't have time in a Mooney, specifically the model you end up purchasing, your insurance will require that you receive some transition training. Quote
270win Posted October 4, 2020 Author Report Posted October 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Paul_Havelka said: Well if you don't have time in a Mooney, specifically the model you end up purchasing, your insurance will require that you receive some transition training. I'm sure they will, they'll probably require less time than I actually want. I've got several hundred hours in high performance complex singles. Quote
Paul_Havelka Posted October 4, 2020 Report Posted October 4, 2020 They've been requiring roughly 10-20hrs dual before solo and an additional 5hrs solo before carrying passengers. Once you do find a plane just make sure you have a solid purchase agreement in place before sending it to PPI that was everyone knows what is expected of them when issues arise. Oh yeah, and give @Parker_Woodruff and I a call at Airspeed Insurance Quote
0TreeLemur Posted October 5, 2020 Report Posted October 5, 2020 On 10/3/2020 at 10:14 PM, 270win said: Good tip, what m.p. do you run from the faf in on an ils? Assuming prop full forward? In case you don't know, '67 and older Mooneys had top of white arc at 100 mph (87 kias), so you can't use flaps as speed brake. Gear are the speed brake for these older birds, with VLE at 120 mph (105 kias). I think in '68 they upped the top of the white arc, and added a full-length rudder. Frankly I like using the gear as the speed brake for the aforementioned reason. Upon entering the pattern VMC or at the FAF, putting the gear down is essential to level out in the pattern or start the established 500 fpm descent at 90 kts without pulling the throttle out to the point where the gear warning horn goes off. BTW- the gear warning horn in the Mooney is the second most annoying sound in the world. Everybody knows what the first is... Quote
skydvrboy Posted October 5, 2020 Report Posted October 5, 2020 I’m going to contradict the other advice you have been given. There just isn’t enough difference between the C, E, or F model to worry about for your mission. In fact, the only time I would worry about which model is if you are going to regularly fly with 3 or 4 seats filled. Then you’d need the F (or the G). I think you will be much better off focusing on how well the plane was maintained, how often it was (is) flown, and how it is equipped. For solo flight or with a single passenger, there just isn’t much difference between the three. However, there are huge differences between the maintenance, recent hours flown, and installed equipment within each model! 8 Quote
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