Buyers Market?

[PilotDerek]

Everyone keeps saying it is a buyers market. The economy is down and many people can not afford their aircrafts. As a buyer I am not seeing it this way. Anytime I see an aircraft that meets my criteria and the owner has priced it reasonably (vref or close too, too many owners price their emotional connection) I am lucky if I am the third caller. Planes that are in good shape and reasonably priced fly off the aircraft websites. My questions to everyone is how long did it take you to purchase your aircraft? How many did you look at or miss out on before finding yours?

[Parker_Woodruff]

I purchased my M20J in Feb. 2009.  I had gone through about 6 aircraft before landing on this one.  Good airplanes get bought very quickly.  Best ready to go with with cash/loan money in hand.

My M20K took about 2-3 months of searching for what I really wanted.  I wasn't sure I'd end up with an M20K, or even a Mooney.  But that's what it turned into, and I'm happy it worked that way.

[John Pleisse]

In the late 90's (top of the dot-com boom) I was looking for a good 201 and they were all sold. Yes, there was actually a time when there were only 6 or 8 Mooney 201's for sale nationwide.  I spent 6 months in a seller's market. Take 6-8 months if you have to.

Send a flyer to all Mooney Service Centers outlining what you are looking for and present yourself as a cash or pre-approved buyer. You'll stand a better chance of finding a good plane. Trolling Trade-A-Plane and Controller could take longer with worse results.

Be patient...don't buy a used-up whore or some godforsaken basket case. Take your time. You have that luxury.

[KSMooniac]

The premium planes are still selling quickly and for strong money as far as I can tell.  The market for un-loved/un-upgraded planes is what is in the tank and where you can get "more" plane for the money vs. 4-5 years ago, but you'll likely have to spend more (total) than buying a premium plane to get it up to par.  If you've narrowed down your criteria, be ready to pounce as soon as you find a good one!

[M016576]

Quote: KSMooniac

The premium planes are still selling quickly and for strong money as far as I can tell.  The market for un-loved/un-upgraded planes is what is in the tank and where you can get "more" plane for the money vs. 4-5 years ago, but you'll likely have to spend more (total) than buying a premium plane to get it up to par.  If you've narrowed down your criteria, be ready to pounce as soon as you find a good one!

[kurtsnyder]

I know exactly what you mean Derek. It took about 4 months of searching and every decent plane I looked at got snapped up within a few days of being listed. It was SO frustrating! When the plane I just bought came on to the market, I jumped on it really fast and looked at it within a couple of days of being listed and had the sales agreement and deposit in hand.

The place that did my pre-buy also sells a lot of planes and they told me that business has steadily grown over the past 6 years. In fact, they offered me a part time broker position for the TN area. I just got my first referal (a Piper Arrow) after a week. I know some areas of the market are depressed, but other areas are still strong. Don't worry, you'll find "the one"!

[drapo]

Quote: PilotDerek

Everyone keeps saying it is a buyers market. The economy is down and many people can not afford their aircrafts. As a buyer I am not seeing it this way. Anytime I see an aircraft that meets my criteria and the owner has priced it reasonably (vref or close too, too many owners price their emotional connection) I am lucky if I am the third caller. Planes that are in good shape and reasonably priced fly off the aircraft websites. My questions to everyone is how long did it take you to purchase your aircraft? How many did you look at or miss out on before finding yours?

[GeorgePerry]

Yep the good ones go quickly...And the great ones never even get listed.  They are ususally sold, word-of-mouth, locally. 

I like to browse this site.  It shows how many days ads have been listed.  Some of the "dogs" out there are over 200 days.

http://www.globalplanesearch.com/view/all/AllSEPCNA.htm

[rbridges]

I bought my plane nearly a year ago-definitely a buyer's market then.  IMO, it is in great shape and very well equipped for a C model.  It was priced high for a C model, but still within VREF.  I asked the broker if others had asked about it or if I was the only "sucker."  He laughed and told me that several people had shown interest.  In fact, someone was waiting to hear from him that day whether or not I showed up with my deposit.

 

[David Mazer]

I purchased my Rocket in 2006.  Probably the height of the market.  I can tell you that within a year, after several upgrades and repairs, the value on Vref had dropped over 15%.  I think it is probably even further down now but it is hard to tell with the number of upgrades I have done since.  I see planes listed for 30 - 40% less than I think they would have listed in 2006. I think the buyers perspective (price compared to Vref) is different than the sellers (price compared to cost).  I still believe it is a buyer's market - big time.

[PTK]

An airplane purchase is an economic intangible and cannot be quantified by traditional economic theories. The physical object has a certain dollars and cents value which could be quantified, I suppose, but it has an intangible component.  That is in the pride of ownership and the inner enjoyment only it's owner/pilot can feel. That feeling of going to the airport and taking to the skies anytime you feel like it and just because you can. Or merely opening the hangar door sitting on a chair and admiring this beautiful machine.

This intangible value is so much greater and it is different for every owner. To me this intangible is priceless. I didn't buy my airplane to make money on it as an investment.  I bought it for this inherent and intangible value.  

Therefore with the right attitude, it is always a buyer's market for an airplane! 

[flyboy0681]

Quote: allsmiles

An airplane purchase is an economic intangible and cannot be quantified by traditional economic theories. The physical object has a certain dollars and cents value which could be quantified, I suppose, but it has an intangible component.  That is in the pride of ownership and the inner enjoyment only it's owner/pilot can feel. That feeling of going to the airport and taking to the skies anytime you feel like it and just because you can. Or merely opening the hangar door sitting on a chair and admiring this beautiful machine.

This intangible value is so much greater and it is different for every owner. To me this intangible is priceless. I didn't buy my airplane to make money on it as an investment.  I bought it for this inherent and intangible value.  

Therefore with the right attitude, it is always a buyer's market for an airplane! 

[DaV8or]

It is a buyer's market now. Prices are really low and selection is high. I think for the first time buyer, the process is just so different than for any other consumer product, or even a house, that it becomes frustrating. Your options even now, are scattered all over the country and vary quite a bit in condition and equipment. You have to be prepared to travel, obsess, pay for pre-buys and ultimately, walk away from potential trouble. It is the most complicated shopping experience you'll have. Difference is, in the old seller's days, it would be the same two or three over priced planes week after week in the papers and people were buying up and dumping serious money into the dogs out there just because that's what there was.

[PTK]

Quote: flyboy0681

Well said, especially the line "Or merely opening the hangar door sitting on a chair and admiring this beautiful machine."

[scottfromiowa]

I bought mine to get from point A to point B...F.A.S.T.  The rest is just gravy.  I agree that premium planes still have a premium price.  I also agree that if you can afford the buy in a premium plane vs. a "fixer-upper" is the way to go.

[201er]

I think a major reason why Mooney prices haven't come down THAT much is because there aren't all that many available. From most planes out there, a Mooney is the top of the line, best bang for the buck, etc. Look at how many Pipers, Cessnas, and Bonanzas are available for sale and then look at how many Mooneys. I think it is a "buyers market" for singles in general but the lack of available Mooneys, lack of brand new Mooneys, and incredible value of the plane, they still sell.

[flyboy0681]

Quote: 201er

I think a major reason why Mooney prices haven't come down THAT much is because there aren't all that many available. From most planes out there, a Mooney is the top of the line, best bang for the buck, etc. Look at how many Pipers, Cessnas, and Bonanzas are available for sale and then look at how many Mooneys. I think it is a "buyers market" for singles in general but the lack of available Mooneys, lack of brand new Mooneys, and incredible value of the plane, they still sell.

[PTK]

Quote: flyboy0681

Agreed, supply and demand at play here.

[KSMooniac]

Another wrinkle on the Mooney market is the *efficiency* of all models relative to others in the market.  With $6+ 100LL, MPG comparisons start to enter the mind as a primary characteristic and I feel that is a reason that Mooneys are holding more of their value relative to the rest of the market.  

(I think it is also why I seem to hear a disproportionately high number of Mooneys on ATC frequencies when traveling...many B, C and P owners are not flying as much!)

[PTK]

Quote: KSMooniac

Another wrinkle on the Mooney market is the *efficiency* of all models relative to others in the market.  With $6+ 100LL, MPG comparisons start to enter the mind as a primary characteristic and I feel that is a reason that Mooneys are holding more of their value relative to the rest of the market.  

(I think it is also why I seem to hear a disproportionately high number of Mooneys on ATC frequencies when traveling...many B, C and P owners are not flying as much!)

[rbridges]

Quote: KSMooniac

Another wrinkle on the Mooney market is the *efficiency* of all models relative to others in the market.  With $6+ 100LL, MPG comparisons start to enter the mind as a primary characteristic and I feel that is a reason that Mooneys are holding more of their value relative to the rest of the market.  

(I think it is also why I seem to hear a disproportionately high number of Mooneys on ATC frequencies when traveling...many B, C and P owners are not flying as much!)

[David Mazer]

Quote: KSMooniac

(I think it is also why I seem to hear a disproportionately high number of Mooneys on ATC frequencies when traveling...many B, C and P owners are not flying as much!)

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: KSMooniac

(I think it is also why I seem to hear a disproportionately high number of Mooneys on ATC frequencies when traveling...many B, C and P owners are not flying as much!)