Auto pilots?

[panther1400]

Do you guys have a preference or operation expirence to say what makes certian auto pilots better than others? Which one do you guys like?  KFC200, 150, Century 41, S-tec?

[dcrogers11]

I'm looking at the S-tec 30 which is approved for my M20C.  It takes the place of my old T&B indicator and will be coupled to the 430W via GPSS.  I'm not an expert on the subject, but you may be limited to those that are TSO'd for your A/C which may narrow your choices.  My A&I says he likes the ride of his Century in his Piper over the S-Tec, but it is not approved for my A/C.  

[PTK]

My experience is with the KFC150 AP/FD.  It has been trouble free and a solid performer. I like the fact that each button has one and only one function. This is very important to me and it is not so with others. This makes it very predictable and extremely user friendly. Also it performs its functions very precisely. It is everything an autopilot should be. I love it.

[sreid]

PC wing leveler is the best flight controls system in a Mooney.  Some people I know have sprung for the rubber band automatic disable upgrade feature, but I prefer mine "stock" all original.

[Bennett]

My current setup is a Allied/Bendix/King KAP150 driven by a Garmin750, coupled through an Icarus SAM GPSS converter. This is a very nice setup that works well.  My prior Mooney used a KFC200 autopilot, and over the 16 years or so I owned her, the unit worked perfectly, although the KAP150 with WAAS and SAM is far better. 

[Jeff_S]

The primary decision will be between a rate-based system like those from S-TEC or the attitude-based system like the standard KAP150. My plane was an AT model (one of about 20 built) that didn't come standard with any A/P, so it had an S-TEC55 system added after the fact. I love it and with the supplemental GPSS and altitude preselect that were also added it will basically fly the plane from take off to touchdown if you want it it. But folks will say that an attitude-based system will provide overall smoother flight and not spend as much time chasing the needles...all that may be true, but I've not found that to be any bit bothersome with the S-TEC.

[carusoam]

Thoughts on what an AP should have.....

 

Autopilot functions:

Keep wings level

Follow a heading

Follow a nav source ( Gps or vor )

Intercept and follow glide slope ( gps or ILS ) from above or below GS

Follow a flight plan (GPSS) including procedure turns and holds

Hold altitude

Hold a climb or descent attitude

Preselect an altitude

Preselect a climb rate

 

When selecting your AP, check to see how many of these functions it has or doesn't have.  For single pilot IFR in the busy NYC area, I recommend the most functions that are financially or physically available.  We get many waypoint and altitude changes while underway, it gets busy.

 

I have a KAP 150.  The PIC is responsible for updating the course at each waypoint and telling the AP when we have arrived at altitude.  A WAAS GPS with a GPSS addition would be greatly appreciated...

 

Best regards,

 

-a-

[Ned Gravel]

I'm spoiled.  I bought my E model in 2005 and it had an S-Tec 50 in it already.  I love it.  An old Trimble TNL 1000 to watch the heading and the S-Tec to fly it when things are busy.  The only thing it does not do is fly the glideslope.  But, hey.  I probably like it that way.

 

[Skybrd]

My newly purchased Mooney M20J (201) has a Century III autopilot, part of it works and part doesn't such as the DG tracking. Have any of you had good experience with this model?

[jetdriven]

We have one that works pretty well, but the previous owners sent out the AI, DG, control box, servo, and roll filter to be overhauled in the 5 years before we bought it.   With the S-TEC 30ALT module its a great combo.

[jax88]

My '75 F had a Century 41 in it when I purchased the aircraft 18 months ago.  No GPSS, but for the first 12 months the AP worked flawlessly for tracking the DG and holding either altitude or attitude.  This spring I noticed that the AP was having trouble holding altitude, so while in for an avionics upgrade I asked the shop to have a look at the AP and see if they could fix it.  Two months and close to $9.5AMU later we have a new main board and a new GPSS unit, but we're still trying to iron out some pitch oscillation problems.

[rbridges]

Does anyone know a ballpark price for adding GPSS to an existing auto pilot?  I have an STEC and 430.  It's something I'd like to put on my wish list.

[jax88]

My GPSS unit set me back $1750, not including shop labor.

[RJBrown]

I think Panther is looking to buy a plane and is wondering which auto pilots to buy or avoid.

 My Rocket had a Century 31 and my J has a K150. Both did the job and were trouble free for me. The 1990 J has the  King HSI\KAP-150 setup. Mooney used the DG\ Century setup in cheeper versions like my 1980 K\Rocket. The King auto pilot was part of the upgraded avionics packages from the 80s and 90s. When I was shopping I looked for the King set up the second time around. Not so much for the auto pilot its self but for what came with it. Yes a Century HSI could be added to the century 31 in my Rocket but I like the King all electric unit better than the Century vacuum HSI. Buying a plane without and paying to add it would be the most expencive way to go. That goes for both the HSI and the auto pilot.

[panther1400]

Yes I am looking at planes and alot of the people selling say theirs are good and some are better just checking to see what you guys think of them and which ones work the best?

[rbridges]

There are a lot of people who know tons more than me, but having GPSS would be nice.  I have to use the heading bug, and it requires a little more attention.  Also, check how many axis the auto pilot has.

[rob]

Any of you STEC guys need a DG with a heading bug, let me know

[PTK]

Quote: rbridges

... it requires a little more attention.  

[Ron McBride]

Any of you STEC guys need a DG with a heading bug, let me know

I have a 69F with an STEC 30, altitude hold, GPSS and a heading bug on the DG.  I mainly use the GPSS. I use the heading bug when I want to fly something differsnt.  I rarely track VOR's with the system.   The other day, in order to avoid class C airspace, I used the heading bug until clear of the airspace. I dio not use it that often.  If you are thinking a 430W or newer, the indicator, GPSS, the new DG will almost buy an Aspen.

Ron

[danb35]

Quote: allsmiles

All GPSS does is fly holds and PT's.

[Jeff_S]

Quote: danb35

Often wrong, never in doubt...

[jelswick]

My J had a Century 21 when I purchased it and it was limited function (heading bug) only.  It worked fine for the first few years, but then quit going left when commanded (if you wanted to go from 360 to 270, you'd have to go the long way around using the AP heading bug!).  As others indicated, they can be very expensive to trouble shoot and if old enough that something has failed, they're likely to find a lot of other components nearing failure, so I just had them replace it with an STec 30 during my Aspen install which also provided GPSS.  I love the setup.  I was also very happy with the STec 20 with GPSS and GNS 430 I had in my C model previously.  I love having the altitude hold with the 30, but hadn't missed it in the 20 and a nice thing with the STecs is their upgradeability in the future.

[PTK]

Quote: Jeff_S

Often wrong, never in doubt...

[jelswick]

I'll agree GPSS is a nicety rather than a necessity, but glad to have it as it does add a level of precision to the AP even though I turn it off 1/2 the time because I like hand-flying as well.  The AP though in my opinion is more a necessity.  I'm sure noone that has a spatial disorientation accident planned for it to occur.  I consider myself lucky to have never really encountered it, but with my family or I guess even just me on board, if it were to ever happen, i like the idea of being able to punch the wing leveler mode or whatever to give myself time to get myself back together.  Have to have it? No, but I think of it as a real insurance policy.

[rbridges]

I guess I should have expanded my statement.   Not having a GPSS requires more attention to the heading enroute (IMO).  Im still paying attention to the plane while I'm in the air.  Obviously I purchased the plane w/o GPSS b/c I didn't feel it was a necessity, but I'd like to have it.