RLCarter Posted November 5, 2019 Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 10 hours ago, exM20K said: do you have a link for that report? ntsb search has nothing for N113TN that I can find. thanks Aviationdb.net, shows past history and any FAA or NTSB reports HERE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted November 5, 2019 Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 Welcome aboard Raghav. Thanks for sharing all the details, and then some. Sorry you won’t be staying... you are always welcome to stay when you get the time... We have a few Mooney pilots that have gone turbine over the years... Post a pic of the new bird if you can... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymuscle56m Posted November 20, 2019 Report Share Posted November 20, 2019 $272k, that’s so cheap. I wonder if it met reserve. I did hear that it had an A/C problem yesterday. Someone got a screaming deal, and now that Mooney is not producing the 16 or so a year, limited supply might drive the prices up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 7 hours ago, Mooneymuscle56m said: $272k, that’s so cheap. Not when you add in the 10% buyers premium, now you’re at $300,000 for an airplane with substantial damage history that’s been on the market for many years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymuscle56m Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 9 hours ago, LANCECASPER said: Not when you add in the 10% buyers premium, now you’re at $300,000 for an airplane with substantial damage history that’s been on the market for many years. I wouldn’t call a nose gear collapse substantial damage. When I was shopping for my Acclaim, most had prop strikes. Mine had three of them. Let’s face it, most people buying a new acclaim are low time, high income. When you have the money to buy the best, you buy the best. Hopefully they can get enough training or experience before their skills are tested. I think the seller will miss this Acclaim, it’s almost jet speeds with $5k annuals, $3k insurance, and an operating cost of $120 an hour of fuel. I can go Seattle to Phoenix in 4:30 with 30 gallons left in the tank. I can’t think of one other piston that could make any of that work. I imagine the delta guys bought it to flip, lots of meat left on this one. Watch the new advertisement written correctly like waas, ads-B and many other things not mentioned. If I didn’t have mine I would have been a player to $340k. I have drooled over this acclaim since I first saw it. The paint job was breathtaking in person. Consider me an unpaid spokesperson. Sold for 1/3 the cost of a new one that you can’t get right now. Does everything the same, useful load and speed. Nice discount for 1200 hrs and minor damage history. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 17 hours ago, Mooneymuscle56m said: I wouldn’t call a nose gear collapse substantial damage. When I was shopping for my Acclaim, most had prop strikes. Mine had three of them. Let’s face it, most people buying a new acclaim are low time, high income. When you have the money to buy the best, you buy the best. Hopefully they can get enough training or experience before their skills are tested. The gear collapse isn't substantial damage, it's the prop strike and engine teardown could make it substantial, depending on whether it was dealt with properly. You'd have to carefully look over the logs and invoices to make sure that the engine teardown was done according to the Continental Service Bulletin TCMSB96-11B. (https://www.twincessna.org/pdf/TCMSB96-11B(PropStrike).pdf) Since the ad doesn't even mention damage history I would be especially skeptical as to whether it was dealt with properly. I think the seller will miss this Acclaim, it’s almost jet speeds with $5k annuals, $3k insurance, and an operating cost of $120 an hour of fuel. Up high, with oxygen, a turbocharged Mooney approaches turboprop speeds, but a long ways from jet speeds. The difference is that in a pressurized turboprop you're doing great speeds, eastbound or westbound. without an oxygen mask. I can go Seattle to Phoenix in 4:30 with 30 gallons left in the tank. I can’t think of one other piston that could make any of that work. A Mooney TLS Bravo with Long Range Tanks will do the same mission you described for less than half of a used Acclaim and won't eat up cylinders every 500 hours that is so common in TSIO-550 Continentals. I imagine the delta guys bought it to flip, lots of meat left on this one. Watch the new advertisement written correctly like waas, ads-B and many other things not mentioned. The ad shows WAAS, but it doesn't look like the it has ADS-B. https://bid.cunninghamauctions.com/bid/43932?section=auction&embed=false&_ga=2.89483483.1908302133.1572474049-2131279222.1572474049&item=2897032 If I didn’t have mine I would have been a player to $340k. I have drooled over this acclaim since I first saw it. The paint job was breathtaking in person. Consider me an unpaid spokesperson. The market spoke when it sold for $300,000 including buyer's fees, considering that it went through the first set of cylinders in 500 hours and now has 850 hours on these cylinders it will probably need a top end at $15,000-$20,000, plus the GTX-345R ADS-B upgrade at $6500. Sold for 1/3 the cost of a new one that you can’t get right now. Does everything the same, useful load and speed. Nice discount for 1200 hrs and minor damage history. N113TN sold close to $500,000 when new ten years ago but can't really be compared to the high $700,000 Ultra which has the composite cabin, two doors, much upgraded interior, redesigned panel, Nxi Garmins, etc, etc. The ad shows that it has 1300 hours on it. Just for information purposes, N113TN has been on and off the market a long time: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooneyMuscle Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 9 hours ago, LANCECASPER said: I know a bit about this aircraft and it did have the teardown to comply with the mentioned service bulletin. Insurance was on the hook, and they paid. Not sure why the ad didn't mention that. It also had the 345R ADS-B. Not sure why the ad didn't mention that. I have taken my Acclaim to the same shop this guy did on occasion. According to wikipedia the Eclipse 500, only has a max speed of 370 Knots and a range of 1125 miles. Other than pressurized, it's not all that much better performance. I have no idea about the cost of ownership of an Eclipse. I have considered what my upgrade would be and I would lean towards the Eclipse 500 or a Citation Mustang. But when I work the math it's not worth the extra $$$ to shave an hour each way off my typical trip. I normally fly alone with a small travel bag. The Acclaim is so good and so cheap compared to the next step. Look at a Meridian doesn't make sense either. In regards to the Bravo, no doubt a great aircraft. The Lycoming doesn't eat cylinders very true. My 550 has had 500 since the last top and compression is all above 72, I run low power 2200/27.5" LOP and still true at 200-205 kts in the upper teens at 12-14 gph and cylinders stay 280-310. If you can accept less than book speeds, you gain a lot of range. I can have my cowl off in 5 mins, nothing connects to it, my cylinders are cool in the climb in PHX 118 degree temperature. I flew a Turbo Saratoga with the 540, ran great, lots of power, and thirsty. The trade off fuel burn or cylinders, most of us will pay the fuel. With a little care the 550 has been great. By the way the 550 has a 2200 TBO. I asked my service center about the Monroy long range and they advised my not to do it. Apparently the fuel tanks can leak around the speed brake. makes sense given the force in that area with the brake extended, flexing. I do think the Monroy Mod is a great mod. Seattle to Phoenix is my purpose lately, If I don't get rerouted too much I can make it work with the 102 gallons I have now. This time of year Airmet Zulu is common on the west coast. I do not have TKS. It's true that the market spoke at $300k, but how many people have heard of Cunningham auctioneering? I hadn't. I didn't see it on trade a plane, barnstormers, of any other aviation website other that mooneyspace. This sale was marketed poorly. I think if it was in tradeaplane for 300k it would have had a bidding war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIm20c Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 1 hour ago, MooneyMuscle said: It's true that the market spoke at $300k, but how many people have heard of Cunningham auctioneering? I hadn't. I didn't see it on trade a plane, barnstormers, of any other aviation website other that mooneyspace. This sale was marketed poorly. I think if it was in tradeaplane for 300k it would have had a bidding war. It might have made it to at least one other place... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIm20c Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 I think this online only auction would be a see before you buy setup. Too much information in error or omitted. Little things like needing to look really close at mediocre pictures to see the flap was replaced and not even painted. Not sharing all of the logs and the rushed sale even though it was being utilized 3-4 times per day all gave me pause. Another acclaim recently sold in the low 200’s that I really considered but after adding up different repair costs quickly became less of a deal. As previous posters have said there are no deals in used aircraft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 Check the details on the Monroy comment... 1) I have speed brakes, no Monroy extended tanks... 2) The speed brakes are in the tank area... I think... (?) 3) No fuel tank leaks yet... lots of speed brake use over the years... 4) The Monroy extension would add another 30gal to my existing 100gal... 5) The speed brakes are attached to a very strong piece of aluminum... If we have further questions, we can alway ask José. He is around here somewhere... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidv Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 I’m a little confused about the speed brakes interacting with the long range tanks... I’ve taken the brakes out and put them back in several times and they have their own compartment that doesn’t seem to touch or interact with anything around them (unless I’m missing something). The basically screw into the top wing area as well as two screws at the bottom near the access panel and that’s it. I have the long range tanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkaye Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 On 11/21/2019 at 8:40 AM, Mooneymuscle56m said: I wouldn’t call a nose gear collapse substantial damage. When I was shopping for my Acclaim, most had prop strikes. Mine had three of them. Let’s face it, most people buying a new acclaim are low time, high income. When you have the money to buy the best, you buy the best. Hopefully they can get enough training or experience before their skills are tested. I think the seller will miss this Acclaim, it’s almost jet speeds with $5k annuals, $3k insurance, and an operating cost of $120 an hour of fuel. I can go Seattle to Phoenix in 4:30 with 30 gallons left in the tank. I can’t think of one other piston that could make any of that work. I imagine the delta guys bought it to flip, lots of meat left on this one. Watch the new advertisement written correctly like waas, ads-B and many other things not mentioned. If I didn’t have mine I would have been a player to $340k. I have drooled over this acclaim since I first saw it. The paint job was breathtaking in person. Consider me an unpaid spokesperson. Sold for 1/3 the cost of a new one that you can’t get right now. Does everything the same, useful load and speed. Nice discount for 1200 hrs and minor damage history. A little history. I have many, many hours in your airplane (158.1 hours to be exact), N98FL. I helped the last owner bring it back from Kerrville. It was based in Palo Alto. It took me 30 hours before I released him to fly it by himself. The problem was the field length of 2460 feet. Then he made his big mistake by putting it on the line with a flight club. He didn't specify that a checkout would be required by me. Other non Mooney specific club instructors were allowed to do checkouts. At that field length you really have to be on speed, not even 2 knots too fast. Anyway, the result: 3 prop strikes by club members. Eventually, the plane got repossessed. I hope you take good care of it. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidv Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 6 hours ago, donkaye said: A little history. I have many, many hours in your airplane (158.1 hours to be exact), N98FL. I helped the original owner bring it back from Kerrville. It was based in Palo Alto. It took me 30 hours before I released him to fly it by himself. The problem was the field length of 2460 feet. Then he made his big mistake by putting it on the line with a flight club. He didn't specify that a checkout would be required by me. Other non Mooney specific club instructors were allowed to do checkouts. At that field length you really have to be on speed, not even 2 knots too fast. Anyway, the result: 3 prop strikes by club members. Eventually, the plane got repossessed. I hope you take good care of it. Wow, 2460 ft AND putting it in a club, the phrase “Prop strike assured” comes to mind. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Davidv said: Wow, 2460 ft AND putting it in a club, the phrase “Prop strike assured” comes to mind. 3 prop strikes is - very striking. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkaye Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 15 hours ago, Davidv said: Wow, 2460 ft AND putting it in a club, the phrase “Prop strike assured” comes to mind. Had he put it in a club where the runway was longer, there might not have been the problem because there would be runway to solve a "too fast" problem, but with 2460 feet and people not very familiar with the plane, they would see finally they were too fast and try to force the plane on the ground with the resulting wheelbarrowing and prop strike. If you screw up on that length of runway, you need to see it early and just go around. Trying to stop just won't work on that length of runway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkaye Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Davidv said: Wow, 2460 ft AND putting it in a club, the phrase “Prop strike assured” comes to mind. Not with proper training. The long body Mooney should easily be able to do it, but it does take proper training. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schllc Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 I have landed several times at x01 which is 2400x50 with PLENTY of room. very easy to put down in less if you have a stabilized approach and watch your speed. what I’ve noticed when other people fly the Mooney is they think they can hedge the speed over the numbers for “insurance”. it may work that way in other planes, but not a mooney. I found that the cirrus with that spatula prop will bleed speed faster that you could imagine, the Mooney will not. I am a bit mystified how anyone can land a mooney (long bodies are all I’ve flown) gear up. I can barely slow the thing down enough to land with the gear down. I’ve (knock on wood) never even come close to forgetting, not because I’m that good, just because it’s the only way you can get the speed down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidv Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 30 minutes ago, donkaye said: Not with proper training. The long body Mooney should easily be able to do it, but it does take proper training. Agreed @donkaye, my comment was mostly due to the club element. Short runway but with one person flying it who is well trained and knows the plane is no problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schllc Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 14 hours ago, donkaye said: A little history. I have many, many hours in your airplane (158.1 hours to be exact), N98FL. I helped the original owner bring it back from Kerrville. It was based in Palo Alto. It took me 30 hours before I released him to fly it by himself. The problem was the field length of 2460 feet. Then he made his big mistake by putting it on the line with a flight club. He didn't specify that a checkout would be required by me. Other non Mooney specific club instructors were allowed to do checkouts. At that field length you really have to be on speed, not even 2 knots too fast. Anyway, the result: 3 prop strikes by club members. Eventually, the plane got repossessed. I hope you take good care of it. I have some history with 98FL as well. I had retained a broker whom I won’t name, but you obviously bought the plane from them so you know who they are... anywho, I found the repo’d plane at the bank, it was at a well known Mooney shop in CA with a bill unpaid. I made an offer and the bank accepted, and called my broker to discuss the plane. Then the “broker” I hired went behind my back and outbid me with the bank, I found out because the shop who had possession at first was belligerent and rude, then wouldn’t even talk to me after the other offer was made, I assume, that since they are in the same region, he knew the firm. Then the bank told me they had a better offer and the name of the firm that made the offer. Needless to say I was pretty upset and called him and confronted him, and told them if they wanted it bad enough to screw a client they could have it. I was disappointed but didn’t want the anxiety of dealing with that clown again. I hope it’s been a good aircraft for you, but I will never deal with that Mooney shop or that broker again. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schllc Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 On 11/22/2019 at 1:39 PM, MooneyMuscle said: I know a bit about this aircraft and it did have the teardown to comply with the mentioned service bulletin. Insurance was on the hook, and they paid. Not sure why the ad didn't mention that. It also had the 345R ADS-B. Not sure why the ad didn't mention that. I have taken my Acclaim to the same shop this guy did on occasion. I sold my other acclaim about a month ago and have since entered the most severe case of sellers remorse of my life!!!! While it seemed I had great reasons for selling they don’t make sense now and I do not understand why I sold it. Hence, I’m the winner of the auction. N113TN does have waas, it was stated in the auction just listed oddly. It does not have the gtx345R. it also did have a mechanical incident the last day of the auction, and I subsequently found out it had flow 10+ times since the auction began. Needless to say I was a bit upset about this, but the seller and auction house are both working in good faith with me so far, and I am anxious as heck to get in my possession so I can remove that god awful paint scheme and return her to glory. Plan is to strip and paint, better soundproof, thicker windows, factory reman engine , adsb, and a new interior, and a new tail# All but the engine and adsb are discretionary but I let one go without understanding my mistake. Won’t happen again, I am going to make this just how I want it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_elliott Posted November 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 45 minutes ago, Schllc said: I sold my other acclaim about a month ago and have since entered the most severe case of sellers remorse of my life!!!! While it seemed I had great reasons for selling they don’t make sense now and I do not understand why I sold it. Hence, I’m the winner of the auction. N113TN does have waas, it was stated in the auction just listed oddly. It does not have the gtx345R. it also did have a mechanical incident the last day of the auction, and I subsequently found out it had flow 10+ times since the auction began. Needless to say I was a bit upset about this, but the seller and auction house are both working in good faith with me so far, and I am anxious as heck to get in my possession so I can remove that god awful paint scheme and return her to glory. Plan is to strip and paint, better soundproof, thicker windows, factory reman engine , adsb, and a new interior, and a new tail# All but the engine and adsb are discretionary but I let one go without understanding my mistake. Won’t happen again, I am going to make this just how I want it. And I will be flying with the new owner of your old Acclaim N688MD soon! Too bad I never got the chance to fly with you in her, as previously stated, a very very nice Acclaim and I understand why you had sellers remorse. N113TN is a good craft, Raghav is a true gent and will do whats right. Congrats! (I offered Raghav to let me "store" it for him and he could still fly it every now and then, but no, he didnt see the value in that ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schllc Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 17 minutes ago, mike_elliott said: And I will be flying with the new owner of your old Acclaim N688MD soon! Too bad I never got the chance to fly with you in her, as previously stated, a very very nice Acclaim and I understand why you had sellers remorse. N113TN is a good craft, Raghav is a true gent and will do whats right. Congrats! (I offered Raghav to let me "store" it for him and he could still fly it every now and then, but no, he didnt see the value in that ) I had close to 500 hours in my g1000 Ovation before her so my transition was pretty smooth. 8MD was a sweet sled, I miss her terribly but that wound is healing now. DM you your phone number and I’ll give you the low down on her peccadilloes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Schllc said: I sold my other acclaim about a month ago and have since entered the most severe case of sellers remorse of my life!!!! While it seemed I had great reasons for selling they don’t make sense now and I do not understand why I sold it. Hence, I’m the winner of the auction. N113TN does have waas, it was stated in the auction just listed oddly. It does not have the gtx345R. it also did have a mechanical incident the last day of the auction, and I subsequently found out it had flow 10+ times since the auction began. Needless to say I was a bit upset about this, but the seller and auction house are both working in good faith with me so far, and I am anxious as heck to get in my possession so I can remove that god awful paint scheme and return her to glory. Plan is to strip and paint, better soundproof, thicker windows, factory reman engine , adsb, and a new interior, and a new tail# All but the engine and adsb are discretionary but I let one go without understanding my mistake. Won’t happen again, I am going to make this just how I want it. Congratulations! I've done the SoundEx materials on two Bravos and haven't found that they helped with noise much, but the reason I went ahead with it again on the second one is that it does help with warm temperatures since I live in Texas, but also cold temperatures up in the flight levels. I think the best thing to contend with noise is a Bose A20 headset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schllc Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said: Congratulations! I've done the SoundEx materials on two Bravos and haven't found that they helped with noise much, but the reason I went ahead with it again on the second one is that it does help with warm temperatures since I live in Texas, but also cold temperatures up in the flight levels. I think the best thing to contend with noise is a Bose A20 headset. I have some hearing damage from a prior life, and found the ANR headsets to be a lot less effective or comfortable than my clarity aloft in ear set. Ive tried them all, Clark’s, zulus, a20’s, you name it. If I have over three hours sometimes I will put a set of Bose over them but not sure it helps as much. Change the plugs about every 20 hours or so and they are way better for outside sound attenuation. At least for me... interesting about the sound proofing. I’ve read that about several planes, not just the Mooney. i guess I figured it couldn’t hurt... I have found that sealing air leaks makes a HUGE difference, and read thicker glass does as well. Did you try the thicker glass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, Schllc said: I have some hearing damage from a prior life, and found the ANR headsets to be a lot less effective or comfortable than my clarity aloft in ear set. Ive tried them all, Clark’s, zulus, a20’s, you name it. If I have over three hours sometimes I will put a set of Bose over them but not sure it helps as much. Change the plugs about every 20 hours or so and they are way better for outside sound attenuation. At least for me... interesting about the sound proofing. I’ve read that about several planes, not just the Mooney. i guess I figured it couldn’t hurt... I have found that sealing air leaks makes a HUGE difference, and read thicker glass does as well. Did you try the thicker glass? I have not tried the thicker glass. I agree about air leaks, I would like to use an inflatable door seal, but the company that made them is now out of business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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