Mooney down at KWVI

[Immelman]

http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/ci_18435761

My home airport. RIP.

Photos of scene taken by a local pilot:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dandaws...7627143636158/

The newspaper article includes an interview from another local pilot who witnessed it. Between reading that and knowing the behavior of that fog bank it is not hard to imagine what occurred.

Now for my soap-box rant: The teachable moment here, I think, is to not follow the herd, the local custom, the noise abatement runway, etc, depending on the conditions. I have witnessed many, many VFR departures at my airport where a pilot will blast right off towards the fog bank (and the aircraft are clearly operating under VFR, as evidenced by the low altitude maneuvering that doesn't correspond to the IFR DP) to try to remain VMC. We're talking a fog bank right off the end of a 4,500' runway here! Simultaneous to this, there are two or usually THREE other runway choices that have no fog off the departure end....and when the fog is getting that close, the wind is usually pretty calm as well; its not like the wind is an excuse. Rant off. RIP.

[MooneyMitch]

Very sad and so tragic.  Our thoughts are with the families.

[mooneygirl]

That is so very sad.  My thoughts are with the families in this tragic loss.  There are always lessons we can learn, but for now just praying for those whose hearts have been broken

[aerobat95]

Thats too bad....a very sad situation.  I think it highlights the importance of proper preflight planning and a good reason to have an instrument rating.  In addition knowing your own go/no go limits and sticking to them.  My thoughts and prayers go out to the family.

[LFOD]

Some reports are saying there were children on board.  This is a terrible accident. 

[Sven]

This is indeed very tragic. Here is the latest local news.

 

http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/localnews/ci_18439510

[richardheitzman]

Dammit that is so sad. I feel so sorry for the family. What a terrible terrible thing to happen.

[kortopates]

The preliminary accident report is out at http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20110707X35545&key=1  Witness accounts, including by one which is a pilot,  seem to collaborate the obvious - a stall spin from trying to out climb the stratus layer 1/4 mile off the departure end of the runway. The report also tells us the pilot just got his Private 3 or 4 months ago in March. To his credit,  most of his flight training was done in the Mooney they acquired in late November 2010. The witness account(s) indicate it appeared to "begin to recover" but they also observed that the "takeoff appeared "steep" and then it commenced a very rapid left roll to the left till it was nearly inverted at about 500' when it rapidly began descending nose low. Things really went bad for a violent stall to occur like that.  Lots of lessons here, but Jesse nailed the root issue IMO with the choice of runway. After that, it was all about basics in stall avoidance (keeping the airspeed up - really keeping up with the airplane), stall recognition (pushing the nose down at first signs or buffet), and stall recovery including not aggravating the stall further with lack of rudder coordination and/or maybe improper use of ailerons during the stall. Of course, an out of rig airplane could have contributed as well.

So often I hear/read that Mooney stalls are a non-event. Well this, IMO, is a good wakeup reminder for us all that its not the aircraft per se that makes stalls a non-event but really our proficiency at their avoidance, recognition and recovery; if we're so far behind or distracted that they go that far. Anyway, that's what I got out of the report, I'll bet some others will pick up some additional lessons/reminders from the report.

[John Pleisse]

The stall-spin was not the cause, but the result. This is a spacial disorientation accident. Instrument rating?

[flyboy0681]

This was a tragedy of epic proportions. It's bad enough the husband and wife both perished, but the kids too.

One thing struck me while reading the local paper: "One adult and one child were found in the two front seats, Huhn said".  Is it remotely possible that the kid grabbed the yoke and pulled it all the way back? Maybe the pins weren't locked in and the kids seat (or pilot's?) shifted back and the first instinct is to grab hold of something close. Think Cessna in the 80's.

The official report said VMC prevailed, so I'm not sure fog in the distance played a role.

 

 

[John Pleisse]

Recently certificated private pilots usually don't have airmanship or passengers issues....they are too recently trained and are too sharp. They won't let a kid take the yoke or end up in a departure stall, even if distracted. However, recently certificated private pilots who don't have an instrument rating won't last longer than 12 seconds in a low strato-layer. Especially with no altitude to recover.

Multiple witnesses reported that the low layer of stratus clouds that was typical for the region at that time of year, was present just southwest of the airport. Some witnesses reported that the boundary of the stratus layer was coincident with Highway 1, which ran perpendicular to runway 2/20, and was situated about 1/4 mile from the threshold of runway 2.

 

[flyboy0681]

Although 140 hours isn't a whole lot, it's more than enough for him to know better. His trying to avoid the fog is only speculation at this point but what grabbed me was the witness saying "From the time he took off, he was going too steep, too slow". So he tried to climb like a bat out of hell right from the point of rotation to avoid the fog? I'm still not convinced. And what was he attempting to do, get over it?

I'm also willing to bet that had he done his training from the same airport that he would have encountered the same conditions many, many times and would know how to handle it. I lived and flew out of the bay area for many years and am all too familiar with fog creep.

I just think there may be more to it.

 

 

[kortopates]

Quote: N4352H

The stall-spin was not the cause, but the result. This is a spacial disorientation accident. Instrument rating?

Interesting perspective, but the witnesses clearly indicate the plane never entered the stratus from their account.  They described in detail watching it stall, become nearly inverted and then make two tight turns before it disappeared behind trees. Couldn’t do that it the plane had entered the stratus. Secondly, as you already pointed out, they estimated the stratus began ¼ from the threshold. But the plane impacted only 700’ from the threshold.

Flyboy, we always are searching for more when it seems so easily avoidable. But most often its exactly the simple things that get us. Just like AF443 Airbus that went down in the Atlantic. The prelim report believes that a professional crew of three managed to climb into a stall after they lost air speed data and their automation. They then continued to hold it in stall as the plane fell at 10K/min into the Atlantic. They apparently never recognized they were in a stall all the way down for 3 ½ minutes. Even at night and IMC, they supposedly also had more than enough training to know better.

Maybe during training, the lightly loaded Mooney did clear a similar fog bank. But on that day it was a different scenario at probably near max gross with 4 people and weekend baggage headed for Pine Mountain Lake.

[John Pleisse]

Departing at sunset...fog-strato-form. I don't think he was seeing much of anything. The fog was 2000 feet beyond the departing threshold.

We have snow squalls here in the east. They sit off the edge of the runway threshold, but look like they are five miles away. I had a CFI tell me to launch into it once. We disagreed about the position of the snow. I said...let's give it just a minute. In under 30 sec's, the snow squall was over the airport. We were engulfed in white, with hardly enough visibity to taxi.

This poor fellow was off the ground for only a second and looking point blank into IMC.

[kortopates]

Actually sunset was 8:30pm PDT on the day of 7/7. The accident was 7:20pm. Also our low stratus layer here on west coast is typically only a few hundred feet thick. But even if it was a thousand feet, its never like flying into a wall of white but much more akin to flying to a fence with clear blue sky over it with full unobstructed views to the side(s) - at least until penetrating it which I don't think there is any evidence of. Good point about the possibility of misjudging its closeness. We usually have enough visual clues to tell when it’s that close and therefore I am more of the opinion its more likely he misjudged his ability to climb above it with plane load likely near max gross. But I doubt the final report will give us enough info to actually know.

[John Pleisse]

Quote: kortopates

Actually sunset was 8:30pm PDT on the day of 7/7. The accident was 7:20pm. Also our low stratus layer here on west coast is typically only a few hundred feet thick. But even if it was a thousand feet, its never like flying into a wall of white but much more akin to flying to a fence with clear blue sky over it with full unobstructed views to the side(s) - at least until penetrating it which I don't think there is any evidence of. Good point about the possibility of misjudging its closeness. We usually have enough visual clues to tell when it’s that close and therefore I am more of the opinion its more likely he misjudged his ability to climb above it with plane load likely near max gross. But I doubt the final report will give us enough info to actually know.

[Immelman]

Just a quick note... sometimes the summer fog bank here is like a vertical wall off the end of the runway. Bases a couple hundred feet (though usually higher when its first rolling in), tops 1500-2000'.

Also I took a look at the crash site on the way to the airport the other day. It was perpendicular to the departure end of the runway (4,500' length), approx 200-300 yards lateral displacement. If the fog was as reported, he crashed short of the fog bank it by a few hundred yards (I know this isn't much but I feel compelled to add this detail as I am based at KWVI).

[fantom]

Quote: Immelman

Just a quick note... sometimes the summer fog bank here ........(I know this isn't much but I feel compelled to add this detail as I am based at KWVI).

[DaV8or]

Quote: fantom

 Not being a west coaster, Jesse, I assume here is central CA.

[Immelman]

Oops, sorry for that Gary, I forget I'm not just talking to someone at the pilot lounge in person, at times

[fantom]

Jesse and Dave!