Help with electric fuel boost pump issue - M20k

[peter]

Looking for input/advice from the group about a problem we're having with our electric fuel boost pump.

 

Over the past few months we've had challenges with the elec fuel boost pump being finickity about spinning when we first prime engine.  Sometimes it can take several button presses of the primer to get it to turn, and sometimes we've had to turn on the low or high boost pump to get the pump to spin.  Once we've done this, the pump has worked fine after that for the duration of that flight, but may or may not work at the next engine start.  Worse if the aircraft has sat for a while.

 

Then this past week these actions stopped working.  So, now the airplane is AOG away from home and the shop is saying the elec boost pump needs a $1300 overhaul.

 

Going back in the logs I see a couple of squawks in 2008 related to the boost pump.  A new primer switch was installed and then a few months later additional insulation was added to the pump blade connects "to prevent intermittent grounding of the circuit."

 

So, my question is does this sound like an issue of a dying pump that has finally died, or an electrical issue that hasn't been properly solved?  I'd hate to spend $1300 on a pump, only to find out that this was a bad ground somewhere in the system.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[jetdriven]

Peter, we just went through this.  Our Dukes 1499-00-19A pump was leaking, so we had it overhauled.  After 3 flights it quit again.  It had some cheesy handshake couplers connecting the wires with clear tubing over them. Turns our our 1200$ fuel pump had a bad bearing. We had to buy ANOTHER one and send this one back for credit. 

This pump has a plastic impeller.

The TCDS for the M20K lists a Dukes, 4140-00-19A, 1499-00-19 or Weldon, 10054A (S/N 25-0001 thru 25-0999)
( Weldon, 10054B (S/N 25-1000 and on)

Id say take the belly panel off and hook it up to 12v.   inspect the couplers and perhaps replace with good couplers.  I wish I knew the Weldon pump was on the TCDS fore the M20J, I wouldnt buy another Dukes pump again. Let us knw what your shop finds out.  I wouldnt replace it until I was dead sure it is the pump, not wiring or switch.

[jetdriven]

Oh and that log entry sounds like another piece of plastic tubing over the handshake coupler. 

[firefly201]

Peter, sorry I can't address your issue directly but our 81 J model pump went out and we had Rapco Inc.(http://www.rapcoinc.com/) overhaul the pump for about $400 at their Monroe ,Wi facility. Call and talk to Mike Lotzer 262-367-2292. Nothing should cost that much. Tom Wilhelmi,Wisconsin

[jetdriven]

Ours was 900$ from Quality aircraft accessories.  Evidently there is a shortage of cores, and no other shop in the county even had a Dukes in stock, for any price.

[John Pleisse]

Just replaced mine, literally a week ago. Exchange value was $140. New pump was $1270. Labor, another $150. $1300 for a new pump is correct, not a rebuilt. 1270-140+150+$1280 for a NEW pump installed. PM me if you'd like to see the shop order. It is from Landmark FBO. I own a J not a K. I don't know if there is any difference. Good news is it should last a decade or so.

[peter]

I was told by the shop (El Paso Aero) that overhaul of our existing pump is the same cost as exchange for rebuilt, and its $1395 no matter where they get the work done.  They also said no one will do an IRAN on the pump. 

$400 from Rapco sure sounds better.

We have not yet authorized work.  The aircraft is AOG away from home, but we are back home now.

[peter]

Quote: N4352H

Just replaced mine, literally a week ago. Exchange value was $140. New pump was $1270. Labor, another $150. $1300 for a new pump is correct, not a rebuilt. 1270-140+150+$1280 for a NEW pump installed. PM me if you'd like to see the shop order. It is from Landmark FBO. I own a J not a K. I don't know if there is any difference. Good news is it should last a decade or so.

[jetdriven]

Get the part number of the pump and call around.  We got ours from Quality in Tulsa for 900$ exchange. They may be marking the parts up.  I also know it takes 1-2 hours to change the pump, I watched them do it.

[jetdriven]

Dukes 1499-00-19 or 4140-00-19A  1050$ exchange.    from CJ Aviation.  http://www.mcssl.com/store/cjaviation/dukes-4140-pumps

[Parker_Woodruff]

I have an extra Dukes 1499-00-19, this one is used but works, I bought this one as a back up. I paid $400 for it. PM me if interested.

 

Eldon  (JEZZIE)

[Parker_Woodruff]

Don't know why I always come up as Parker, sorry Parker

[Parker_Woodruff]

Test

[jezzie]

I have an extra Dukes 1499-00-19, this one is used but works, I bought this one as a back up. I paid $400 for it. PM me if interested.

See if this works

Eldon  (JEZZIE)

[Shadrach]

I had my Dukes IRAN'd by D&G this year for $200...Overhaul would have been $1200.  Russell spoke with me personally and explained how my pump looked inside and what was needed,  before any work was done. It was an easy decision and has been flawless so far...  With regards to aviation maintenance, I think more money is uselessly wasted in removing perfectly serviceable parts for "overhaul" than just about any other area of maintenance.

http://www.dgsupply.com/

[Shadrach]

Dupe...

[John Pleisse]

Quote: peter

We were quoted $1395 for exchange, $1695 for new.  Perhaps the K pump is more expensive? 

[peter]

Quote: Shadrach

I had my Dukes IRAN'd by D&G this year for $200...Overhaul would have been $1200.  Russell spoke with me personally and explained how my pump looked inside and what was needed,  before any work was done. It was an easy decision and has been flawless so far...  With regards to aviation maintenance, I think more money is uselessly wasted in removing perfectly serviceable parts for "overhaul" than just about any other area of maintenance.

http://www.dgsupply.com/

[Shadrach]

Quote: peter

 There we go!  I'll plan to give them a call on Tuesday morning.

[Emmet]

Hi,

I'm also experienving problems with my pump in my K model since the last weekend. It doesn't work if I

press the prime or the low boost switch. It works on high boost ...

Did you guys experience the same behavior with your broken pumps or does that look like an electrical problem ?

 

[M016576]

I can't believe how expensive the Dukes pump has become... I replaced mine for $600 two years ago... Is this the future for all our parts?

[peter]

Quote: Emmet

Hi,

I'm also experienving problems with my pump in my K model since the last weekend. It doesn't work if I

press the prime or the low boost switch. It works on high boost ...

Did you guys experience the same behavior with your broken pumps or does that look like an electrical problem ?

 

[peter]

Well, we have our aircraft back now.  Following Shadrach's advice, we contacted D&G about doing an IRAN on our pump vs. the full overhaul our MSC told us was the only option.  Russ was straight up and very helpful, professional throughout, and turned the pump quickly.  The repair bill for the pump was just $350, vs. $1400 quoted by a MSC for a rebuild. 

5 Stars for D&G - I'd gladly use them again.  I can't say I'm anywhere near as happy with El Paso Aero.  I'll post a pirep on that experience later.

[thinwing]

Last year after a panel upgrade..the boost pump started acting up...the pump itself (on bravo at least)is located just behind copilots footwell....it turned out to be a bad ground...but at a loose multiplug behind the pilots panel.We thought maybe we had loosened during all the panel work..(not an Aspen Peter...sorry)but reading these posts and the logbooks I am not so sure...An msc decided to overhaul at considerable expense the fuelpump at maybe 600 hrs...I wonder if the basic problem is dirty ground connections that are not close to the unit itself???Oh ...total time to R and R a fuel pump about an hour and half..and it was the first one i have done...kpc

[jetdriven]

I saw your plane at OSH and visited with your co-owner.  The fuel pump issue came up.  I talked to the C&J rep at OSH and as I suspected, they refuse to IRAN the pump.  Of course an overhaul is 900$.  I mentioned yours was IRAN'd and he declared it "unsafe".  "It must be overhauled."  Sure.  Thats the reason aviation is so expensive.  I'm glad it worked out. 

Quote: peter

Well, we have our aircraft back now.  Following Shadrach's advice, we contacted D&G about doing an IRAN on our pump vs. the full overhaul our MSC told us was the only option.  Russ was straight up and very helpful, professional throughout, and turned the pump quickly.  The repair bill for the pump was just $350, vs. $1400 quoted by a MSC for a rebuild. 

5 Stars for D&G - I'd gladly use them again.  I can't say I'm anywhere near as happy with El Paso Aero.  I'll post a pirep on that experience later.