Can't upgrade avionics if i wanted to

[McMooney]

I"m so frustrated, my main comm/nav is on the fritz barely working,  cuts in and out when it feels like it.  Have no idea how i'm going to take my ifr checkride.

avionics shops are so full of business at the moment that they can't be bothered with me.  I'm a tiny mooney wanting a gps/nav/comm, guess not worth the trouble, 

the avionics shops don't even bother to call back or send quotes; nice to have the business.  Anyone know how I can get a  GNS 480 installed sooner rather than later?

 

[donkaye]

14 minutes ago, McMooney said:

I"m so frustrated, my main comm/nav is on the fritz barely working,  cuts in and out when it feels like it.  Have no idea how i'm going to take my ifr checkride.

avionics shops are so full of business at the moment that they can't be bothered with me.  I'm a tiny mooney wanting a gps/nav/comm, guess not worth the trouble, 

the avionics shops don't even bother to call back or send quotes; nice to have the business.  Anyone know how I can get a  GNS 480 installed sooner rather than later?

 

While I recognize that the 480 was a good GPS, why would you ever want to install 20 year old technology in your airplane?  It's barely supported now and eventually it will be even more difficult to maintain.  Save up your money to get one of the more modern WAAS GPSs.

[M016576]

16 minutes ago, donkaye said:

While I recognize that the 480 was a good GPS, why would you ever want to install 20 year old technology in your airplane?  It's barely supported now and eventually it will be even more difficult to maintain.  Save up your money to get one of the more modern WAAS GPSs.

I agree with Don.  You might be asking for trouble installing an older 480 right now.

 Sell the 480W on eBay for 4K, save another 4K and buy an ifd440.  It’s worth the extra money.

[Rick Junkin]

41 minutes ago, McMooney said:

I"m so frustrated, my main comm/nav is on the fritz barely working,  cuts in and out when it feels like it.  Have no idea how i'm going to take my ifr checkride.

avionics shops are so full of business at the moment that they can't be bothered with me.  I'm a tiny mooney wanting a gps/nav/comm, guess not worth the trouble, 

the avionics shops don't even bother to call back or send quotes; nice to have the business.  Anyone know how I can get a  GNS 480 installed sooner rather than later?

 

Are you looking at a new installation, or is your current on-the-fritz comm/nav a GNS 480 and you're looking for a replacement? Sounds like the latter and you're looking for a "quick kill" solution to keep you progressing through your check ride. @Alan Fox may be able to help you, if that's the case.

Cheers,
Rick

[CWM20f]

Been to two shops in central Texas several weeks ago to get estimates on panel rebuild/upgrade.   Nothing from them yet.  Anyone have recommendations for the Texas area?

[jazztheglass]

I actually love the 480.  It is quite old but there is a yahoo group that is a good source for help with parts and procedures.  There is always a new box on the horizon but the 480 is a safe capable instrument.  I inherited one when I bought a plane two years ago and it has been trouble free.

[Niko182]

2 hours ago, McMooney said:

I"m so frustrated, my main comm/nav is on the fritz barely working,  cuts in and out when it feels like it.  Have no idea how i'm going to take my ifr checkride.

avionics shops are so full of business at the moment that they can't be bothered with me.  I'm a tiny mooney wanting a gps/nav/comm, guess not worth the trouble, 

the avionics shops don't even bother to call back or send quotes; nice to have the business.  Anyone know how I can get a  GNS 480 installed sooner rather than later?

 

you might be better off going somewhere distant. I know chandler avionics in Arizona does good work. they're booking for Feb right now. I believe High desert avionics in Socal is planning for December right now. might be worth it going a decent distance. yes it sucks that you need to fly that far, but both of these guys gave me quotes within a week,

I'm using chandler avionics and getting a gtn750, 35c, 345R, and 2 G5's, and they gave me a pretty good price compared to all the other places.

You have a traveling machine. might as well kill 2 birds with one stone and take a vacation to Socal, and have the panel updated at the same time.

[MrRodgers]

19 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

you might be better off going somewhere distant. I know chandler avionics in Arizona does good work. they're booking for Feb right now. I believe High desert avionics in Socal is planning for December right now. might be worth it going a decent distance. yes it sucks that you need to fly that far, but both of these guys gave me quotes within a week,

I'm using chandler avionics and getting a gtn750, 35c, 345R, and 2 G5's, and they gave me a pretty good price compared to all the other places.

You have a traveling machine. might as well kill 2 birds with one stone and take a vacation to Socal, and have the panel updated at the same time.

I had my panel upgraded at High Desert Avionics in Lancaster, CA.  I had the Garmin 650 installed and I am happy with the purchase. If you tie it in with a new Garmin audio panel you will be well on your way to a nice upgrade of your plane.  

[MIm20c]

The problem right now is supply and demand. Shops are trying to be careful about not getting booked out too far. They want quality, larger, high margin jobs that will help with lean years in the past. 

If they install a new 650 they will make 2k on the unit and 2.5 to 3k on the install. The project will be predictable and they know the unit will be working perfectly with a warranty. 

If they take a used 480 that is in unknown working condition they miss out on the profit of the new box sale. They also take a huge risk with the possibility the unit will not properly work when installed.  This places them in a hopeless situation where the seller claims installation error and the the shop insists the unit is malfunctioning. 

The shops are not returning your calls because doing so is bad for business. If they give you a quote that is the same profit margin of a 650 the install will be more than the box is worth. It is probable that after spending the time to quote the install you will be upset with the number and post your experience on a forum. 

In the end their time is limited (supply) and large/profitable projects are stacking up with 4-6 month backlogs (demand). 

[LANCECASPER]

6 hours ago, CWM20f said:

Been to two shops in central Texas several weeks ago to get estimates on panel rebuild/upgrade.   Nothing from them yet.  Anyone have recommendations for the Texas area?

Pippin-York in Fredericksburg TX

[Tommy]

Are you upgrading as stated in your title or are you just replacing the defective unit with another identical unit?

If you are upgrading then 480 is a terrible option. 

[Jerry 5TJ]

Avionics shops do appear quite busy now and they are likely to be overbooked through 2019.  

Have you considered an owner-assisted approach?  

If you can get the cooperation of an A&P you can do the removal and physical installation of racks, harnesses and panels.  

There are firms that will build up complete custom wire harnesses for you, ready to plug together.   

The electrical wiring schematic can come can come from the same folks who build the harness.  Chances are they have already built the system you want, or something very similar.  

There are services that will custom design panels, mill aluminum and mail you completed instrument panels.  

If your E model still has the original radio access hatches forward of the windscreen you can rejoice —. those openings make Mooney avionics work far, far easier.  

When you finish you will have more reliable, well-documented avionics.  

[McMooney]

I've been thinking of doing it myself,  paranoid about taking the interior out.

why is a 480 a bad idea 1/2 the cost of 650/ifd and garmin still supports the unit( called yesterday ).

hell if I have to do the install myself, which is seeming more and more likely I can buy 2 or 3 replacement units and still be under the cost of the 650 install

also going in will be a new pma8000 audio panel to replace my kma20

 

[McMooney]

funny, no fear of electronics or wire but terrified of 1974 plastic

[gsxrpilot]

I've used this strategy before of buying used equipment and then finding a shop to do the install. But I can tell you I've never gotten a response to an email or even a phone call. But if I jump in my Mooney and fly it to the avionics shop, show up, walk in and get to know the folks, it's a different story. Don't ever balk at the lead time. When they say they're currently booking for 6 months out, "yep, not a problem". You're gonna talk to other shops anyway. Also offer to pay up front, put down a sizable deposit, et.

I've had shops go from not wanting the work and booking 6 months out, to accepting the job and starting in two weeks, just from a personal conversation. If the shop believes you'll be a good customer, easy to work with, and pay when asked to pay... you'll get service. But you've got to sell yourself as that kind of customer. The shop is doing a "pre-buy" on you. And that can't be done over email or even the phone.

[MIm20c]

1 hour ago, McMooney said:

I've been thinking of doing it myself,  paranoid about taking the interior out.

why is a 480 a bad idea 1/2 the cost of 650/ifd and garmin still supports the unit( called yesterday ).

hell if I have to do the install myself, which is seeming more and more likely I can buy 2 or 3 replacement units and still be under the cost of the 650 install

also going in will be a new pma8000 audio panel to replace my kma20

 

If you’re thinking of doing it yourself start looking for a good IA and building trust now.  Good people value their license and will not sign off anything that is not up to regulation/standards.

It might be a good idea to buy a serviceable radio and slide it in to get you past the check ride. 

[jetdriven]

10 hours ago, CWM20f said:

Been to two shops in central Texas several weeks ago to get estimates on panel rebuild/upgrade.   Nothing from them yet.  Anyone have recommendations for the Texas area?

Try Outright avionics in Conroe. They did this. And it was on budget and on time. 

[M016576]

4 hours ago, McMooney said:

I've been thinking of doing it myself,  paranoid about taking the interior out.

why is a 480 a bad idea 1/2 the cost of 650/ifd and garmin still supports the unit( called yesterday ).

hell if I have to do the install myself, which is seeming more and more likely I can buy 2 or 3 replacement units and still be under the cost of the 650 install

also going in will be a new pma8000 audio panel to replace my kma20

 

Not certain, but you’ll still need a sign off, I think, if you do the install yourself, to remain legal.  Finding someone to sign it off might be a challenge.

[McMooney]

I have a call into Outright, Sugarland, AvionicsUnlimited, etc... all are exceptionally busy.

[gsxrpilot]

6 minutes ago, McMooney said:

I have a call into Outright, Sugarland, AvionicsUnlimited, etc... all are exceptionally busy.

I'll bet a tank of avgas that phone calls won't get it done.

[McMooney]

hopes aren't high

[gsxrpilot]

Then why make the phone calls? Get in your airplane and fly it to them. Pull up on the ramp in front of their shop and say "hi". 

Shops get lots of calls every day and 95% of them are either sales people or tire kickers. It's hard enough already to make any money in the aviation business. They're best off ignoring the phone and doing the work in front of them.

I flew over to Conroe earlier this week. So even if Avionics Unlimited does return your call, I'm way ahead of you in the queue. They came out and sat in my Mooney, talked about what could be done, remarked on how nice it was already, and are now ready to do some work for me as soon as the parts are available.

[McMooney]

Been asking Gena and John for a slot for the last 2 mos, shrug maybe that's what i'll have to do

[McMooney]

There are a number of us over at KDWH(hooks)  you should stop in next time you're headed this way

[gsxrpilot]

43 minutes ago, McMooney said:

There are a number of us over at KDWH(hooks)  you should stop in next time you're headed this way

I'll do that. You've got a great lunch place right on the field as well.