Engine Monitor

[Releew]

Looking for opinions on Engine Monitors with multi-input options.  Currently researching the JPI EDM 350 Deluxe and the Electronics Instruments CGR-30P.  If any of you have experience with either of these or can recommend an alternative, I would be very interested in your opinion.

Thanks,

Rick

[Igor_U]

I installed EI CGR-30P in my M20F two years ago and I'm very satisfied with it. It fits in standard 3 1/4" hole (I didn't want to replace instrument panel at the time) and is primary replacement for most of my engine instruments.

It couldn't replace Fuel quantity gages and I'm looking into install of Aerospace Logic dual Qty. gage...

 

Installation was not too complicated (I did it with help of my IA) and I don't find it's size to small.  I prefer it to JPI's EDM 730-830 that I considered at one point as well. MVP-50 would certainly be better but it takes a lot of space not currently available in my 6-pack equipped Mooney.

On their website, JPI says EDM 350 Deluxe is for experimental aircraft only so I don't see how can you install that in your Mooney.

Regards,

 

[DXB]

EDM-900 would be the certified JPI primary instrument counterpart for the EI CGR-30P.  I considered both closely and went with the JPI because it could replace all of my primary gauges. With the EI, I would have had to retain separate certified fuel gauges.  The EI MVP-50 is pricier  but would be more of a direct functional counterpart to the JPI EDM-900/930.   I love my monitor now that the bugs are shaken out, but my customer service experience with JPI in getting to that point was mediocre at best, which made addressing a couple of otherwise minor issues a hassle.  EI is known for excellent customer service I've heard, which would have saved me some serious frustration.  If you aren't looking to replace everything primary, certainly the Insight G2/G3 monitors are worth a look too. 

[kortopates]

32 minutes ago, Igor_U said:

On their website, JPI says EDM 350 Deluxe is for experimental aircraft only so I don't see how can you install that in your Mooney.

In the their install manual, it also clearly says: "Do not install an Experimental EDM-350 in a certified aircraft."

[Bryan]

I have had the Insight G2 and the JPI, any my thoughts are:

1) if you want to replace your primary gauges: EDM 900 or better

2) if you want just an add-on: Insight G2

[Marauder]

1 hour ago, Releew said:

Looking for opinions on Engine Monitors with multi-input options.  Currently researching the JPI EDM 350 Deluxe and the Electronics Instruments CGR-30P.  If any of you have experience with either of these or can recommend an alternative, I would be very interested in your opinion.

Thanks,

Rick

I thought the JPI 350 is for the experimental market. I am so so on the JPI. Had it back a few times for a couple of ailments and one time they sent me a ferrite to fix another problem it was creating. I love the EI stuff I have in the plane. Rock solid. The fuel totalizer I have in the plane has been there for 24 years.

[gsxrpilot]

I'll agree with @Bryan and @DXB and others...  There are really only three engine monitors I would, or have considered. I've installed engine monitors in two Mooneys and wouldn't own one without a good engine monitor. I've installed and used the G2 and currently have and EDM-900 in my 252.

If you mainly need EGT/CHT and are not replacing the stock engine gauges, the best and most economical option is the Insight G2. It has a full color, modern display, includes fuel flow/used, and a few other things. And the data logging is excellent and easy with no cables required. The SD card that is slotted right in the face will easily hold all engine data from brand new to way past TBO without needing to erase. When it comes time to sell, you have an SD card with every flight detailed on it. Priceless.

If you want a larger screen, more options, the choice is the JPI EDM-900. It is Primary for all your stock gauges which allows you to remove all of them. It has excellent data logging, is easy to read, and the fuel gauges/fuel flow/fuel burn might be one of the best parts of the whole unit.

If money and panel space are no issues, then the EI MVP-50 has to be the best option. It's the equivalent of the JPI EDM-930 but with much better customer support.

[jlunseth]

I have the 930.  I agree on the customer support, not the greatest.  But then, if the thing just works you don’t need customer support much either.  I haven’t for years, probably 8 years, when I put the 930 in.

There are two significant differences between the EI and JPI.  The JPI will not read vacuum, and I am pretty sure the EI does, so you could take your vacuum gauge out (if you have one) with an EI.  Second, the JPI uses the factory senders for the fuel gauges.  The gauges themselves in the JPI are only as good as the senders, and the factory senders most of us have are old.  So if your gauges are sticking up at full, and then suddenly drop to half or less, don’’t expect that to change with the JPI.  EI sells electronic sensors that replace the factory, they are much more sensitive, or so I hear.  So you would get a good fuel reading.

[gsxrpilot]

15 minutes ago, jlunseth said:

I have the 930.  I agree on the customer support, not the greatest.  But then, if the thing just works you don’t need customer support much either.  I haven’t for years, probably 8 years, when I put the 930 in.

There are two significant differences between the EI and JPI.  The JPI will not read vacuum, and I am pretty sure the EI does, so you could take your vacuum gauge out (if you have one) with an EI.  Second, the JPI uses the factory senders for the fuel gauges.  The gauges themselves in the JPI are only as good as the senders, and the factory senders most of us have are old.  So if your gauges are sticking up at full, and then suddenly drop to half or less, don’’t expect that to change with the JPI.  EI sells electronic sensors that replace the factory, they are much more sensitive, or so I hear.  So you would get a good fuel reading.

Just about all of us who have installed the JPI EDM-900 over the last year or two, have installed CiES fuel senders at the same time. This ensures extremely accurate fuel gauges.

[Marauder]

7 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Just about all of us who have installed the JPI EDM-900 over the last year or two, have installed CiES fuel senders at the same time. This ensures extremely accurate fuel gauges.

Yeah but it cost us dearly...  

After all the back and forth on the CiES senders, they worked out fine.

[jlunseth]

Yeah, when I looked into it, no one would guarantee that they would work with the JPI.  Thanks for letting me know, I will look into installing them in my plane.  I have had the factory senders rebuilt and a few years later they are flaky again.

[gsxrpilot]

5 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Yeah but it cost us dearly...  

After all the back and forth on the CiES senders, they worked out fine.

We should get a royalty on each set sold from now on as compensation for working out all the bugs 

[Marauder]

Just now, jlunseth said:

Yeah, when I looked into it, no one would guarantee that they would work with the JPI.  Thanks for letting me know, I will look into installing them in my plane.  I have had the factory senders rebuilt and a few years later they are flaky again.

They are scary accurate. Even with the rounding of whole numbers as shown on the fuel gauge, I can be certain that I am within a gallon of what it says I have. 

[Releew]

Thanks everyone.....  

Regarding the EDM 350.....  I was told if I kept the primary gauges installed and operational this was an acceptable unit to install.

 

Rick

[gsxrpilot]

54 minutes ago, Releew said:

Thanks everyone.....  

Regarding the EDM 350.....  I was told if I kept the primary gauges installed and operational this was an acceptable unit to install.

 

Rick

You'll likely find that to be incorrect.

[skydvrboy]

I see several of you have recommended the G2 over the JPI 830.  Can you explain why?  It is a bit cheaper, but it also doesn't include RPM, MP, Oil Temp, Oil Pressure, EGT variation, & HP.  As I understand it, the JPI doesn't replace any of these primary gauges, but I like the idea of having the redundancy.  Also the JPI screen is larger, thus I would think it would be easier to read.  As i have zero experience with either one, please educate me.

[gsxrpilot]

Just my opinion here and as @carusoam says, just a private pilot.

I don't consider the 830 as providing any redundancy. If my RPM or MP, I can still easily get the plane back on the ground. But I can't take off again as the plane isn't airworthy without them. And the 830's don't count as they're not primary. So the redundancy is really not worth much. And as you can see by looking at my panel, I'm not a fan of cluttering up the panel. The one thing I like on the 830 is the HP readout. But the more you fly, the less you need that as you get to know the combination of MP/RPM that make a certain HP. It also takes up too much room.

If I was going to stretch from the G2 up to the 830, I'd just stretch a bit further and get the 900 which is primary for everything and then you're done.

For me the 830 was just not enough to pay the premium over the G2. And if I was at all concerned about the health of my engine gauges, I'd stretch to get the 900 which can actually replace them.

I installed the G2 in my M20C. I've installed the EDM900 in my M20K. To this day, I believe both were the right decisions.

[skydvrboy]

I was thinking of redundancy as the ability to cross check one instrument to the other, but I see your point.  If the primary fails, you're done flying when you land.

As a budget conscious  pilot (CB), it would be tough to spring for the 900 as it's over 10% of the cost of the plane.  However, I wonder how many gauge overhauls it would take to pay for that.  I already don't trust my fuel gauges at all as one bounces around and both read 3/4 when I fill the tanks.  I certainly don't want to save a few bucks on the engine monitor only to spend that on maintenance when i could have had the nicer monitor all along.

Is the smaller G2 easy to read in the plane?  Most of the pictures I find online make it look difficult to read the numbers, but that may just be due to crappy pictures.

[carusoam]

0) Get the old fuel gauges working.  Cleaning and calibrating, may be all it needs...

1) make the decision... Long term plane, 10 or more years...

2) Add FF/totalizer...  

3) If this is your forever Mooney...

4) Add Engine monitor with FF... because you can.

It is really helpful having a second piece of data to verify you are not going to run out of fuel.

It is really helpful having engine data before the valve sticks (my experience only).

 

I bought an expensive FF and JPI... They came with an attached long term O...

Best regards,

-a-