Dear Supreme Leader Mooniac58

[Tommy]

And not to labor the point but I just like to emphasise this is an aviation issue posted in the appropriate forum. 

Because and this is the REAL ISSUE:  sooner or later, Hank, we won't be allowed to talk about LOP vs ROP, Tempest vs Champion, Shell vs Philips, Blonde vs Brunette because it too will get out of hand.

We all should just talk about how we love our Mooney and it's the best plane in the world! Hugs and kisses all around! (come here, Thin Wing!! You know you want it!! Ohh~~look at how thin and tiny your wing is...) 

[Tommy]

Posting it again because this is what really matters: 

Sooner or later, Hank, we won't be allowed to talk about anything that's contentious even if it's directly related to Mooney because it too will get out of hand.

My solution, let it pans out until no new facts, new evidence, and new arguments are being presented. Have couple of moderators ready to delete name calling / defamatory comments instead of just killing the discussion for the sake of convenience. It means we don't get to learn new things!

 

[kmyfm20s]

This sounds like a house of barking Chihuahuas around here! 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, thinwing said:

No fight...just go away ..please

That's rather rude.

Clarence

[Tom]

6 hours ago, Tommy said:

My solution,.....Have couple of moderators ready to delete name calling / defamatory comments instead of just killing the discussion for the sake of convenience. It means we don't get to learn new things!

Don's point is entirely valid, that a state of affairs may erupt that causes people to walk away from the table resulting in a permanent loss to the hive mind.  When this happens, the opportunity to learn things diminishes. 

From a resource standpoint it's not realistic to expect post-by-post monitoring here, thus locking a discussion is thus reasonable (specifically because it is convenient).

If you've not lived in the US I might point you towards reading a little Tocqueville.  If you go to the website, control+F "independence of mind" for a primer.

 

 

[Tommy]

40 minutes ago, Tom said:

Don's point is entirely valid, that a state of affairs may erupt that causes people to walk away from the table resulting in a permanent loss to the hive mind.  When this happens, the opportunity to learn things diminishes. 

From a resource standpoint it's not realistic to expect post-by-post monitoring here, thus locking a discussion is thus reasonable (specifically because it is convenient).

If you've not lived in the US I might point you towards reading a little Tocqueville.  If you go to the website, control+F "independence of mind" for a primer.

 

 

But it was entertaining, informative, and, to me, I didn't get offended and affected by the insult and name callings (especially from someone who has been stalking me on many posts because I know it's just his way of getting my attention...) and I certainly did not complain to the admin.

Those that got offended and affected could've simply walked away and not read / respond to the posts but they chose to hang around and then cried a river to the admin. 

I am here to inform and to learn just like many others. And in the process of doing so I know that others will have different opinions from mine. And because it's an online forum not a tupperware party I know things may well get heated during "exchange of ideas." Now shall we all go and complain every time that happens and stifles the opposing view by flooding admin's inbox? No, of course not! That will stop me from learning new things, new ideas, and new knowledge. 

It's an online forum for goodness sake. If you are a snowflake, then stick with emailing photos of your pets to your family / friends, I say...(I am not directing at you, Tom) Don't ruin the discourse and fun for others

ps. if Facebook locks up heated discussions like we do, it will be out of business in 3 days...

 

 

[Mooneymite]

There are good forums and there are bad forums.  The difference is not so much the participants as the administration.

We're lucky to have this forum and its  success is a direct result of the administrator.  He does a great job of policing HIS forum.

One point that seems to be missed:  this is a forum about Mooneys.  In all the rantings about United there really was nothing concerning Mooneys.  After a few pages of BS, it was completely appropriate to shut it down and move on. 

I'd like to publicly thank Mooniac 58 for all he does.

 

Gus

[kpaul]

1 minute ago, Mooneymite said:

I'd like to publicly thank Mooniac 58 for all he does.

+1

[mooniac15u]

8 hours ago, Tommy said:

I am not being argumentative, Hank. I am simply asking for clarification. Are there any rules we can follow when it comes to posting? What constitutes as "out-of-control?" How does admin deal with complaints? Is there a procedure to follow? It's really not good enough to say I have no time to deal with 10-15 emails a day therefore I am closing this thread considering you are asking for financial support and placing ads on this website (well give me the mod job, I will be glad to help out) 

My original post on United incident was not an invitation for debate nor an insult to anyone (I mentioned no names in my original post). And you have to agree, Hank, it's perfectly aviation-related (more so than people's prostate, tooth decay, and girl friends - okay I think I am laboring the points). 

Then along came people who disagree with my assessment and decided to reply with their opinions. Now do I go "oh crap this is going to get out of the hand and I am hurting someone's feeling" therefore I better lay down and die or should I offer my rebuttal?

Then some people decided to persist despite loosing the argument. I actually wasn't going to keep going because I exhausted my legal knowledge (very little to start with) so I decided to go away and do some research. Coincidentally the thread was locked up - no reasons given. Undeterred, after I done the research, I came back with more information and facts so I posted it again as a FYI only (I stated very clearly).

The along came people who clearly did not know what FYI means.... can you see the repeating pattern here? 

Blaming the victim much, Hank?

 

 

 

 

 

 

In post 4 of the original thread you called someone an imbecile.  There was nothing in his post that provoked that type of response.  You are not a victim.

[Tommy]

1 hour ago, Mooneymite said:

There are good forums and there are bad forums.  The difference is not so much the participants as the administration.

We're lucky to have this forum and its  success is a direct result of the administrator.  He does a great job of policing HIS forum.

One point that seems to be missed:  this is a forum about Mooneys.  In all the rantings about United there really was nothing concerning Mooneys.  After a few pages of BS, it was completely appropriate to shut it down and move on. 

I'd like to publicly thank Mooniac 58 for all he does.

 

Gus

I must had somehow misinterpreted this then?

Miscellaneous Aviation Talk Use this forum to talk about anything related to aviation such as flight instruction, travel, other makes of aircraft or whatever..

And let's see

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/22063-wrapping-your-prostate-in-a-bow/

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/21629-do-we-have-any-dentists-here/

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/19807-attention-oregonians/

The list of non-Mooney-related topics goes on and on. Is it appropriate to shut them down and move on? 

And what you think is ranting could well be someone else's gem.

I am not discounting the good work the admin has done. I am simply asking for clarification of why he locked up the discussion when it's lively, entertaining, and, above all, informative. Just because few people complained (the number and reason for complaints still remain as a mystery), it was locked. 

It's aviation. It's informative. Sure it's heated at time but that's what online forum is all about. 

[Tommy]

3 minutes ago, mooniac15u said:

In post 4 of the original thread you called someone an imbecile.  There was nothing in his post that provoked that type of response.  You are not a victim.

I never said I am not a perpetrator but I am certainly a victim many times. 

I apologised immediately afterwards if you read the entire post. 

[Tommy]

Here are two choices for you, Mooniacs58

1) lock up any heated discussions - even Mooney related. LOP vs ROP. Power settings. Hot-start procedures. You name it - just because a handful of complaints (and to these whingers, why don't you just leave the discussion? You privileged snowflakes that couldn't take the heat, cry like a baby so to ruin the fun for everyone else). We end up with a nice feel good forum with not much substance in it. 

2) allow lively and maybe heated debate / discussion. And such is fxxking life that there will always be opposing views to just about anything. I say build a bridge and get over it to those who is intolerant of dissent. Hire some volunteer (not the United's definition) moderators to police defamatory comments and only to lock it up when no new information presented (I am sure people will just leave the conversation as we all have better things to do) NOT because few whingers complained. We end up with an informative forums that is tolerant to dissent and diverse in views.

In The Friends of Voltaire, Hall wrote the phrase: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

*Rant over*

 

[HRM]

10 hours ago, Tommy said:

Easy. When we all listen to our law professor...

Wait! What about our engineering professor?

[mooniac15u]

4 minutes ago, Tommy said:

Two choices for Mooniacs58

1) lock up any heated discussions - even Mooney related. LOP vs ROP. Power settings. Hot-start procedures. You name it - just because a handful of complaints (and to these whingers, why don't you just leave the discussion? You privileged snowflakes that couldn't take the heat, cry like a baby so to ruin the fun for everyone else). We end up with a nice feel good forum with not much substance in it. 

2) allow lively and maybe heated  debate / discussion - such is fxxking life that there will always be opposing views to just about anything. I say build a bridge and get over it - hire some volunteer (not the United's definition) moderators to police defamatory comments and only to lock it up when no new information presented (I am sure people will just leave the conversation as we all have better things to do) NOT because few whingers complained. We end up with an informative forums that is tolerant to dissent and diverse in views.

In The Friends of Voltaire, Hall wrote the phrase: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

*Rant over*

 

And you continue to lob insults for no good reason...

"You privileged snowflakes that couldn't take the heat, cry like a baby so to ruin the fun for everyone else."

Craig (aka Mooniac58) uses option #3: a technique known as "good judgement."  He has applied it effectively and MooneySpace tends to have fairly civil discussions.

[MyNameIsNobody]

Personal attacks are the pox.  I have been attacked.  Responded and been the attacker in the past.  I was banned for making fun of those that talk about their backs...One persons humour is another's personal affront.

You'll have that.

[MyNameIsNobody]

Spades don't like to be called spades when they clearly are to those that know and can see black and white...

Just say'n...

[HRM]

36 minutes ago, Tommy said:

I never said I am not a perpetrator but I am certainly a victim many times. 

I apologised immediately afterwards if you read the entire post. 

This is the first I have heard of the imbecile point. Frankly, a forum like this is "Hangar Talk" and there are Hangar Talk forums scattered about on other sites.

The old days of hangar talk are pretty much over. No one has enough time for flying let alone hanging around the hangar talking airplanes. For those of us that miss those days, the forums are great, even better (IMNSHO) if all the pilots are Mooney owners. 

Where is this going? Well, in those days the guy you called an imbecile had better be your BFF or a fistfight could break out. Pilots are a bit above the latter, we're paramilitary, disciplined, grown boy scouts, we eschew that sort of fisticuff behavior that is best played out in garages, not hangars. Besides, the collateral damage from two grown fools duking it out around thin, expensive aluminum is not a good thing. We also obey authority (FAA, CFI, IA, etc.) and grouse about it, but we keep it civil and intellectual.

Apologies are too late, just like filling the tank or turning around after TO or getting the gear down...pilot-up.

[MyNameIsNobody]

52 minutes ago, mooniac15u said:

In post 4 of the original thread you called someone an imbecile.  There was nothing in his post that provoked that type of response.  You are not a victim.

I reported you for that.  It was out of line.  There is the ability to delete an overt name calling incident by the poster.  If I had done that I WOULD BE BANNED.  No if's ands or butt's.  Plain and simple past afforonts matter and are considered on MS...

[Tommy]

 

1 minute ago, mooniac15u said:

And you continue to lob insults for no good reason...

"You privileged snowflakes that couldn't take the heat, cry like a baby so to ruin the fun for everyone else."

Craig (aka Mooniac58) uses option #3: a technique known as "good judgement."  He has applied it effectively and MooneySpace tends to have fairly civil discussions.

Lob insult? To whom? Are you offended? Why??? I did not name anyone!! 

There is not even a discussion let alone civil in this thread... https://mooneyspace.com/topic/22084-united-situation-for-those-of-you-interested-in-information-and-not-interested-in-arguingdebating/ 

Craig treaded the path of least resistance  / inconvenience. He even acknowledged that openly... Quote "Truth is on an average day I might get 1-2 reports on topics.  When the United topics were live I was getting 10-15.  I don't have time or the resources to deal with it." 

At least in this case. 

 

 

[mooniac15u]

Just now, Tommy said:

 

Lob insult? To whom? Are you offended? Why??? I did not name anyone!! 

There is not even a discussion let alone civil in this thread... https://mooneyspace.com/topic/22084-united-situation-for-those-of-you-interested-in-information-and-not-interested-in-arguingdebating/ 

Craig treaded the path of least resistance  / inconvenience. He even acknowledged that openly... Quote "Truth is on an average day I might get 1-2 reports on topics.  When the United topics were live I was getting 10-15.  I don't have time or the resources to deal with it." 

At least in this case. 

 

 

I am neither offended, nor did I report anything.  Members of this forum alerted the admin to a thread that they felt detracts from the overall environment of MooneySpace and you have branded them "snowflakes" for having a different opinion about how they think this online community should operate.  That is insulting your fellow community members.  You continue to lash out at everyone and I am trying to help you understand the behaviour that leads to threads being locked.

[Skates97]

Tommy, you keep talking about what Mooniac58 can do and telling him how he needs to run his forum. However,  there is little talk from you about what you can do. You have voiced your opinion multiple times over multiple threads. I think it has passed the "express your opinion and move on" stage. What you are looking for is provided on other aviation forums. I don't understand the need to make this forum like the others. There is a reason I and many others spend most of our time here even though many here are registered on AOPA, POA, and the Purple Board. For myself, I just get tired of the resident trolls on the other sites. 

Use this board for what it is, use the others for what they are. They don't all have to be the same, and thankfully Craig ensures that this forum is different. (Kind of like a Mooney, a step above the rest.) 

[Marauder]

I don't have a lot to chime in on the United situation other than I tried to give up my seat but these tiny airline seats make it REALLY difficult.

 

 

As for this forum and it's content, I have enough stress in my life. I enjoy coming to a forum looking to find or provide information, joke around a bit and share a common passion -- without all of the male pilot appendage comparisons, name calling and all of the other crap the other forums tolerate. It's also why I don't participate on them anymore. For those looking for those environments, there are plenty out there. There is also no permanent chocks (like the aviation related humor?) holding you to this site.

 

The mix of pilot's experiences and perspectives (even those misguided ones ) are what make this site civil.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Tommy]

24 minutes ago, mooniac15u said:

I am neither offended, nor did I report anything.  Members of this forum alerted the admin to a thread that they felt detracts from the overall environment of MooneySpace and you have branded them "snowflakes" for having a different opinion about how they think this online community should operate.  That is insulting your fellow community members.  You continue to lash out at everyone and I am trying to help you understand the behaviour that leads to threads being locked.

So if you were not offended, then why was it an insult then?

"Helping me to understand the behaviour?" Such a condescending statement.  

"Lashing out at everyone" Everyone? Now you are speaking for everyone? I am sure Nobody is on my side. (pardon the pun).

Excuse me, it's really not MY behaviour that leads to threads being locked. It's the people who aren't happy with what they read and their complaints led to threads being locked. I say to them don't read.

I feel like I am Dr. Dao, sitting there minding my own business arguing with a few people. Along came someone who didn't quite like what they read and made complaints. He or she probably did not even participate in the debate. 

_______________

You see, Craig. This is how the threads gets "out of control." People who don't like what they read, they respond. And now he is insulting me - helping me to understand my behaviour!! How outrageous! I am writing a complain to you now as we speak! 

 

[jkhirsch]

It's a fine line that we trace, we cannot assume that each of us share our own intentions.

[jkhirsch]

I happened upon the Rants and Raves topics (poll and original) last night, somewhat oblivious to the existence of them due to the waxing and waning of my participation in the site. I notice that many people's words and actions are not in congruence, which is disappointing to see. However it is easy to empathize with based on my own internet participation.

I have long advocated for a private section of the site that is completely invisible to public or unregistered users, whose search indexing is disabled so that google does not cache it, and requires an extra effort for registered users who want to participate in to be a part of. The technical term for this in the past was "sub-forum" and it's own permissions could be designated.

I will restate the same point that I made before: when you bring people together with a common interest it is simply an extension of human nature for them to explore other similarities or differences that they may have.

I do my best to avoid any mudslinging and only share different perspectives, or factual information. I cannot say that my nose is completely clean but I have always followed this rule in corporate and personal communications, 'Imagine anything you say being read in front of everyone you know, and also being published in the newspaper.'

While I have the utmost disregard to individual sensitivities commonplace in today's society it would be completely reckless to ignore "the optics" of every situation we encounter in this day and age. I was always taught that being nice will get you much further than being nasty and try my best to follow that doctrine, but sometimes we do come to the end of our ropes and all of us being human I choose and actively try not to condemn people for it.

We have a common bond that brings us together, and in some ways binds us to each other, and I don't believe that occasional misgivings should drive us apart.

Edited April 14, 2017 by jkhirsch