First and Second customer Mooney in for cowling mod.

[Marauder]

Today was a very frustrating day. I'm not very happy with the oil cooler relocation STC. Parts don't fit right and the oil cooler was hitting the engine mount. It's now back to square one and time to modify the doubler bracket as well as make a new left rear baffle as the old one is unusable. 
David

David - does this mean I should hold off on the oil relocation for now?


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[Sabremech]

46 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

David - does this mean I should hold off on the oil relocation for now?


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Hi Marauder,

I can tell you and show you with pictures what to watch out for. Every one of these is different and I think the STC doesn't take that into account. 

David

 

[Marauder]

Hi Marauder,
I can tell you and show you with pictures what to watch out for. Every one of these is different and I think the STC doesn't take that into account. 
David
 

Thanks David. I will wait for your pictures. I have some concerns about the room I have behind the new cooler location. I have some stuff already in that area.


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[Sabremech]

Here's a picture from today with where the cooler will sit. The lines are not shown yet but one is on top inboard and the other on the bottom inboard. Hope this helps to determine what you may have to move.

 

[cbarnes403]

Here are a couple of photos from mine, i'll try to get one from the rear of the cooler.

[Browncbr1]

Does the lasar oil cooler relocation stc require new oil lines, or can you utilize the existing lines?  Or does the kit include oil lines?

[Bob_Belville]

I don't know if any of these pics help...

[Sabremech]

18 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

I don't know if any of these pics help...

Hi Bob,

Yep, thanks for the pictures. I know I need to move the cooler outboard more and your pictures give me a good reference. The STC doubler isn't quite right for this specific F model. 

Thanks again,

David

[Marauder]

Thanks all for posting the pictures. I will blow them up on my PC so I can get a better sense if I am going to have conflicts.


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[Marauder]

Hi Bob,
Yep, thanks for the pictures. I know I need to move the cooler outboard more and your pictures give me a good reference. The STC doubler isn't quite right for this specific F model. 
Thanks again,
David

Since Matt’s F is only a few serial numbers from mine, your final pictures will be really important for me.

What I am a bit surprised by is that with the cylinders sitting in front of the cooler, the oil temps on these planes aren’t running hotter.


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[Hank]

Thanks for the pictures, too, Bob. You just confirmed that this isn't an option for my C, that's right where the battery sits . . . .

[Sabremech]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

Thanks for the pictures, too, Bob. You just confirmed that this isn't an option for my C, that's right where the battery sits . . . .

I'm looking to move the cooler on my C and it looks like it will go on the right side of the engine mounted off the firewall with a 3 inch scat hose connected to a duct. Looking to cleanup the nose some more for cowling mod 2.0

David

[Bob_Belville]

7 hours ago, Marauder said:

 

Since Matt’s F is only a few serial numbers from mine, your final pictures will be really important for me.

What I am a bit surprised by is that with the cylinders sitting in front of the cooler, the oil temps on these planes aren’t running hotter.


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Well, my oil temps do run higher than those reported by you and other folks here. On my 5.5 hour flight home from MA Monday when the OAT was -3C at 8000' at about 61% power LOP a snap shot of OilT was 189 and CHTS were 329/300/343/297. As I came South and OAT rose to +3C the OilT rose to 195 and CHTs were 341/318/361/315. Note that cyls 2&4 in front of the oil cooler run significantly cooler than the right side of the engine. However, all in, I am not too concerned with the OilT if CHTs are acceptable.

[rbridges]

19 minutes ago, Sabremech said:

I'm looking to move the cooler on my C and it looks like it will go on the right side of the engine mounted off the firewall with a 3 inch scat hose connected to a duct. Looking to cleanup the nose some more for cowling mod 2.0

David

I sent pics of my engine years ago.  Would any of those help for C models wanting your mod?

[Sabremech]

3 minutes ago, rbridges said:

I sent pics of my engine years ago.  Would any of those help for C models wanting your mod?

You bet! I may have them but more likely on another dead computer. If you wouldn't mind sending them again, I'd appreciate that! Sabremech at gmail.com

David

[rbridges]

10 minutes ago, Sabremech said:

You bet! I may have them but more likely on another dead computer. If you wouldn't mind sending them again, I'd appreciate that! Sabremech at gmail.com

David

I just sent you some unrelated engine pics.  Let me know if you want different angles.  These were ones that I can access at work.

[Raptor05121]

9 hours ago, Marauder said:

What I am a bit surprised by is that with the cylinders sitting in front of the cooler, the oil temps on these planes aren’t running hotter

 

 

It should be getting the same high pressure, cold air as before.

[cctsurf]

2 hours ago, Sabremech said:

Looking to cleanup the nose some more for cowling mod 2.0

Cowling mod 2.0?!  DROOL!  

[Marauder]

2 hours ago, Raptor05121 said:

 

 

It should be getting the same high pressure, cold air as before.

I think your picture validates my concern. The current location of the oil cooler is above the ram air label in your photo. You are getting full benefit of air pressure caused by the prop thrust drawn in from the ambient air. With the oil cooler relocated to behind the red line, you will be picking up some residual hot air from the cylinders and then possibly some restriction due to the 90 degree bend behind the cooler to allow air to flow down and out the cowl flaps.

David -- @Sabremechthis may a good reason to keep the third fixed cowl flap on our F models.

[Marauder]

What would be nice to have is a wind tunnel to test this out on with temp probes in front and behind the current oil cooler location as well as the same with it relocated. Would be nice to also have the ability to measure CFM of the airflow in both locations as well.

[Bob_Belville]

4 minutes ago, Marauder said:

What would be nice to have is a wind tunnel to test this out on with temp probes in front and behind the current oil cooler location as well as the same with it relocated. Would be nice to also have the ability to measure CFM of the airflow in both locations as well.

You do realize that the relocation puts the oil cooler approximately where it is on the M20J? I don't think I've ever had a 201 owner worried about OT - or CHTs for that matter. 

[Marauder]

Just now, Bob_Belville said:

You do realize that the relocation puts the oil cooler approximately where it is on the M20J? I don't think I've ever had a 201 owner worried about OT - or CHTs for that matter. 

Actually Bob, I think it would be good to see some real J numbers. The Js I have been in all had higher oil temps than mine. Also keep in mind our cowl flaps are a lot smaller on our planes than the Js. And I know that some of the J owners will adjust their cowl flaps to leave them trailing 1/2" or so during the summer. Maybe cylinder temp related, but could be oil temp as well.

I suspect the third fixed cowl on the F models was a compromise to address the smaller cowl flaps on our planes.

[cctsurf]

Putting the oil cooler where Sabremech is putting it allows the air to flow over the engine into the  cooler.  This is where it is on almost any modern cowling and produces very good cooling.   The current placement of the cooler often actually flows backward as far as I understand because it is in low pressure air (shown in the picture).  The original design of the cowling is hideous for cooling drag, I really appreciate Sabremech's work to apply modern cooling and streamlining techniques to our cowlings without breaking the bank by replacing the whole thing.

[Marauder]

Just now, cctsurf said:

Putting the oil cooler where Sabremech is putting it allows the air to flow over the engine into the  cooler.  This is where it is on almost any modern cowling and produces very good cooling.   The current placement of the cooler often actually flows backward as far as I understand because it is in low pressure air (shown in the picture).  The original design of the cowling is hideous for cooling drag, I really appreciate Sabremech's work to apply modern cooling and streamlining techniques to our cowlings without breaking the bank by replacing the whole thing.

My cooler's exit is on the lower side of the cylinders where air from the cylinders will mix with it from above, but is a straight line shot to cowl flaps (including the fixed middle cowl flap on my F). I am really curious to see Matt's before and after numbers. That will be the real indicator of the before and after changes. Matt took close notes on several profile flights before the mod and will do them again after the mod. The only difference will be to keep an eye on the ambient temperatures during the follow up flight. I think he did his initial flights during late summer.

[Marauder]

Looking at these pictures of the relocated oil cooler, it appears about a quarter to a third of the relocated cooler is behind the cylinder. I would love to see some numbers from vintage owners who have done the relocation to see the before and after numbers. I'm sure it works, just curious how much warmer (if warmer) the oil gets. Bob's E may be an exception, but I never seen temps anywhere near his.