IFR Training in E Model...wing leveler

[mooneygirl]

 

So, I am wondering if anyone has taken a check ride for IFR in an E model with a functioning wing leveler. And if so, did the examiner know what it was, say anything, ask you to disable it?  Mitch and I are in ground school and begun our flight training for our IFR rating.  Curious minds want to know....

Photos of Mitch's first flight lesson attached!

 

[HopePilot]

Mitch looks perplexed in the second photo (which is perfectly normal for early instrument training)

Maybe he's wondering why the plane/Cessna he's flying is so slow.  He's asking himself, "Did I forget to retract the flaps?  Is the gear still down?"

[eldeano]

Don't know, but my DAR checked to make sure I was proficient in everything in my airplane, autopilot and GPS.  This was a long time ago. Long, long, long time ago.  But I think in general they want to make sure you can operate what ever is in the plane you are getting your check ride in.

Good luck!! It is worth it.

Dean

[mooneygirl]

Do all E models have the PC-wing leveler?

[danb35]

I took my checkride in my F with the PC, and the DE didn't say anything about it.

[ELT]

I got my IR back in the days of the Mark 12a and Lear ADF.  I take a yearly IC check because I now fly so little IFR.  I also found an instructor who owned a Mooney.  He wants me to use ALL equipment on the aircraft (PC, DME, GPS for situation awareness and my pilot wife as co-pilot). 

[N513ZM]

Quote: ELT

He wants me to use ALL equipment on the aircraft <snip>

[mooney231]

I took both my instrument and CFII checkrides in an M20K and had to demonstrate proficiency in the equipment installed (GPS, VOR, AP, FD) since it is all fair game.  The DPE may not have you demonstrate using everything, but going into the checkride it is important to understand that by PTS, all equipment installed in the aircraft is fair game both on the oral and practical exams.

[Ned Gravel]

Jolie:

I took my checkride last year in an E model with an STEC 50.  No wing leveller, but an A/P nonetheless.

 

[Jerry 5TJ]

Jolie asked, "Did all E models have the PC wing leveler?"

No, only those built after serial number 400. 

I owned 1964 M20E S/N 391 for 7 years and I did a fair amount of IMC flying in it.  It never did have any kind of autopilot in its (up to then) 5400+ hours of flight time.     

 

 

[N601RX]

Most non Mooney people would be clueless.  It would be funny to watch him put the plane in an unusual position for you to recover from and the plane just recover by itself.

I just acquired the parts to upgrade our wing leveler to a 3 axis autopilot.

[Immelman]

On the question of E models and PC: Mine (sn 1253) had a Brittian autopilot installed when delivered new... never had a PC system. So perhaps it was a factory option at times?

[takair]

My 64 came without it, but had a the leveler added in '65.  I added on the nav and heading coupler years later.  I took my instrument ride in the plane years ago (PC only a the time).  He did not ask that I shut off the wing leveler.  Not sure if he knew it was there.  I think it's best to discuss with the examiner ahead of time.  Bring something to disable it in case they insist on it being off.  Recently did my CFI ride.  I specifically disabled it since I had to fly from the right seat and it is a pain to fight the system through VFR maneuvers.

I really like the PC.  I do shut it off when doing instrument proficiency work......just so I know I can do it. 

[KLRDMD]

Quote: takair

Bring something to disable it in case they insist on it being off.

[Seth]

Come to think of it, I had the PC system functioning on my F the entire time.  I do usually have a rubber band to disable it on take off and landing, but I think it snapped enroute to the airport, and I didn't have it for the actual IFR checkride.  I tend to keep a couple rubber bands on board, and do practice without it for "failure" situations, but I think it was functional my entire IFR checkride.  I admit, it does help hold with holding headings, especially during approaches in IMC or under the hood.

[Qwalton]

I had mine on my entire checkride, I don't think that the examiner knew what it was, or if we did he didn't seem to care about it.

[Hank]

Mitch and Jolie--

I trained in my electric-gear C model, with a functioning PC system. A couple of times my CFII allowed me to use the Brittain heading bug, until she figured out it was controlling the direction of flight and not just a colored pointer on the DG. After that, I hand-flew everything in training, but never disabled the PC. I don't like pulling the button out of the yoke, and don't carry rubber bands, empty film cans, etc.

DO keep some binder clips for holding the approach plates open, but keep them off the yoke. Neither CFII or DE complained that the plane trimmed up and flew straight and level . . . as long as I had the Accu-Trak and Accu-Flight turned off. The DE didn't ask me to demonstrate them coupled to the 430 for an approach, either, since he said it's "not a real auto pilot." [No altitude hold, no "approach" mode, no climb/descent rates, etc.] FYI, my checkride was last April.

As an aside, I usually ignore the yoke button anyway. I don't make a whole lot of turns in cruise, and they're generally pretty shallow, often just a tweak of the heading bug. Around the VFR pattern, the resistance keeps me from overbanking, and since I'm used to flying that way, it's not much of a problem in holds, procedure turns, etc. Override is easy and natural, relax pressure and we level off, and I don't have to move my thumb. Can't press the override button and the push-to-talk at the same time, anyway . . .

[mooneygirl]

Thanks Hank and to all who have responded.  We will be learning with it in and with it disabled. It is so second nature to me to push the button in on take off and landing and in turns.  I am not terribly worried about if it "fails". Our focus now is passing the written!

 

[Skybrd]

Quote: mooneygirl

Thanks Hank and to all who have responded.  We will be learning with it in and with it disabled. It is so second nature to me to push the button in on take off and landing and in turns.  I am not terribly worried about if it "fails". Our focus now is passing the written!

 

[eaglebkh]

I'd say the most difficult thing to do IFR in a manual gear Mooney is a missed approach.  It's hard to get that gear up once airspeed is above 90 kts - about the speed I make approaches.  Typically, when doing a missed, I pitch up slightly and then raise the gear, then firewall the throttle, all happening within about 3-5 seconds, never allowing speed to drop below 80 kts.

Another option that I've tried a few times is to go ahead and advance the throttle, then pitch for 80-85kts to raise the gear, then pitch for Vy.  But either method runs the risk of a stall.  You'll have to find a method that works for you.

[danb35]

Quote: Hank

The DE didn't ask me to demonstrate them coupled to the 430 for an approach, either, since he said it's "not a real auto pilot." [No altitude hold, no "approach" mode, no climb/descent rates, etc.]

[Hank]

But my 430W is placarded for IFR approaches, and the Brittain is coupled to it. It will fly a beautiful ILS, VOR or GPS approach, as long as I supply the vertical component. Otherwise, my beautiful approach pattern will be at whatever altitude I enter the approach at.

[thinwing]

Mitch and Jolie...congrats in advance on the instrument training.....from the pics it looks like Mitch is training in a 172 and keeping it simple with no prop controls/retract gear to add to the workload.Also the 100 knot speeds allow that much more time (at least it did for me)to get the brain up to speed.One thing I notice on the yoke is what looks like a garmin 496 portable ..its moving map is huge for spatial orientation...something we didnt have 20 years ago while i was training...does the instructor/examiner allow its use???To my mind the moving map is much more important than the wing leveler...anyway good luck with the inst ticket...we have been flying Ifr the entire week ,xmas to new years including a first for me..Ifr in mexican airspace....kpc

[mooneygirl]

Hey Kelly and Jana Happy New Year and welcome "home".

Mitch and I trained in the 182 just for the day because the weather was too cruddy to take Maggie, my E model.  That is the airplane we will learn in. A TAD slower than the Ovation [HA] and less complicated.

I was concerned that the wing leveler only [i have no heading bud] would present a problem on the check ride, but several on MSpace have told me that it was a non issue.

Our first order of business is passing the written. With the hours we are flying for Ambassador events, we really need the ability to get out of the coastal layer and onward.

Thanks for the kudos. We will keep you all aprised.  It is good to be a "learner", but sometimes my brain hurts.

 

[N207LS]

I did all of my instrument training in my G model with a working wing leveler (on during my Checkride).  Like you describe, my finger naturally holds the button down during takeoff and landings.   My examiner had lots of vintage Mooney time and used to train in fixed gear Mooneys.  He also showed me a better way to maneuver the manual gear (by hilding my hand upside down and engaging the button with the palm (lower left hand ball of my hand), to be able to swim the bar to retract the gear in one fluid motion taking about 1.5 seconds to fully retract the gear and ger your hand back on the throttle during initial climb.  Also, I had a working ADF and a non-approach certified GPS at the time, so I was lucky enough to have to perform an NDB approach in actual conditions. 

Enjoy your training and the learning process of instrument flying.