4 Place Pressurized Mooney Single - Hypothetical

[Seth]

This is entirely my idea.  I did discuss this with a few people at Mooney Summit but this is not meant to start any rumors whatsoever.  It is entirely hypothetical.

The only four place pressurized aircraft available today is the experimental Lancair Evolution and it looks amazing.  Most people who fly the Piper PA-46 M Class aircraft do so with one or two people aboard.

The Mooney wing is magnificent.  We even learned that it's not only based on the P-51 wing, but the leading edge is actually made from the same mold North American used to produce the P-51 Mustang.  The P-51, as the Mooney, flies well both down low and at altitude.

However, it is not pressurized.  More people buy Mooney Acclaim's than Mooney Ovations these days.  With the aircraft doing it's best work in the flight levels, using portable O2 is necessary.

Imagine the following:

Use the current Mooney Wing (maybe redesign the gear if needed) and create a clean sheet fuselage, maybe of carbon fiber, maybe not, and create a pressurized passenger compartment.

Mate the new fuselage to the wing, and either create a new or reuse the tail, and then have three engine choices in time:  A turboprop, the current Acclaim Engine, and maybe a diesel in the future.  

This will help keep some design and testing costs down, but make no mistake, it will still be an expensive proposition.

You'll wind up with a pressurized four place Mooney, at that time for real, the M30.  Price it just under the Piper M350, and if a turboprop version comes out, below the M500.

Four seats means less insurance liability.  Useful load then doesn't have to worry about the third row.  with a smaller cabin not having the third rule, that's less area and thus less drag.  That equates to more speed per HP.

Technically, the second row could have a third belt like some Mooney and Cirrus aircraft, but that all depends on the design and is really meant for children.

With the number of turboprop singles and turbocharged aircraft that fly with one or two board, is this a viable concept for the "step up" for Mooney Owners, Cirrus Owners, Bonanza Owners, and more who don't need six seats nor a second engine?

Is this a viable project?

I'd love to hear your thoughts.  A baby TBM, or really, the next step up for Mooney?

Depending on the replies, I may send this this thread to Mooney as well.

 

-Seth

 

[mooniac15u]

You mean something like this?

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=MOONEY&model=M22+MUSTANG&listing_id=1742444&s-type=aircraft

[Seth]

Just now, mooniac15u said:

You mean something like this?

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=MOONEY&model=M22+MUSTANG&listing_id=1742444&s-type=aircraft

Similar, but no.  The M22 Mustang was the very first pressurized single in the US.  Followed soon after by the Pressurized Cessna 210.

I'm not sure if the M22 had the same wing as the M20 or not.  Does anyone know?  I know the gear was different - much beefier.

According to Bob Kromer at Mooney Summit, the M22 was not an ideal shape for pressurization, and thus too much weight was added to makes sure it would stay pressurized.  This is where a modern clean sheet design may work better.  But to keep costs down, make it 4 seat, and mate it to the existing spectacular Mooney wing.  The wing is built separately during production right now anyway.

-Seth

 

 

[Raptor05121]

24 minutes ago, Seth said:

  I know the gear was different - much beefier.
 

 

 

I think I'd prefer an oleo strut to the Mooney pucks

[jetdriven]

The mooney wing is already backed into a corner, the wing stalls at the maximum certificated speed at the current max weight of some models. If you're going to make a carbon fuselage, make the whole plane out of it. 

Thry already tried this with the Mooney 301 and the M22 Mustang. Not trying to ruin anyone's picnic, but I don't see anything developing in this segment. 

[Yetti]

I would go with a Firestone airbag vs. Strut

[VWH3RD]

Not sure if there is a market but during my transition training for the TBM 850 they state that the average flight in the TBM fleet is only 1 or 2 people.

Based on that you might be on to something 

 

[Browncbr1]

I still can't figure out why someone would buy a  brand new plane to begin with.  For less than the cost of a new mooney or cirrus, you could have a nice King Air..   I get that operation cost is higher, but if you're ok with throwing down half a million, then I don't know why it would be an issue..   

[DonMuncy]

2 hours ago, Browncbr1 said:

I still can't figure out why someone would buy a  brand new plane to begin with.  For less than the cost of a new mooney or cirrus, you could have a nice King Air..   I get that operation cost is higher, but if you're ok with throwing down half a million, then I don't know why it would be an issue..   

Shhh. Don't tell them. We need people to keep buying new planes, so we can later buy them used.

[Jerry 5TJ]

Interesting speculation.  

A new competitive single turboprop has to face all those used Jetprops and Meridians and TBM planes plus many other good choices in the $1M up range.  Your hypothetical plane faces lots of entrenched players with good products, all chasing a rather limited market: Owner operators with some money.   New entrants like Cirrus Jet may prove themselves, too (and it has the vaunted parachute).  

Re insurance, I don't think you will find much improvement with 4 versus 6 seats.   Hull coverage is driven by insured value, not number of seats.  Insurance for your "turboprop Mooney," hull at $1M and $5M smooth liability will be around $12-$15K per year once you get a couple hundred hours time in type.  Maybe $20K the first year. 

The Mooney wing is good, but if you optimize for a 250+ Knot cruise in the FL for a 4000+ pound plane it is going to look a bit different than our current wing which was (probably) designed for 150 mph and 2400 pounds.  As jetdriven pointed out at 3368 pounds the current wing stalls at around the 61 knot limit.  If you want to carry 3-4 people a decent distance the resulting plane will probably top 5,000 pounds.  

The TBM700 was designed to cruise at 300 knots at 30,000' and carry four folks (OK, svelte French folks) over 1,200 nmi.  It stalls at 61 knots so you could say they optimized it pretty well.  It also weighs close to 7,000 pounds.  It has a wing that spans 42' and holds 292 gallons.  Not quite our Mooney wing.   

So my vote is, no, you can't use a Mooney wing to make a successful 4 place turboprop.