1975 Mooney M20F Battery

[bjoseph604]

Ok new question.  If you guys are going to leave your airplane for a couple of weeks do you put your battery on a trickle charger?  I don't have an external power connector on my F so taking the battery access panel off would be a PITA.

any opinions or advice?

 

thanks guys,

 

Brian

 

 

[Guitarmaster]

Sometimes.

I put in a power outlet in the aft bulkhead wired to the hot side of the battery relay. This way the kids can plug their crap in while flying and I can plug, up to a 10A (I wouldn't go over 5) charger. Works well and very convenient!

You have to ignore the pimpmobile carpet!

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[mooniac15u]

26 minutes ago, Guitarmaster said:

Sometimes.

I put in a power outlet in the aft bulkhead wired to the hot side of the battery relay. This way the kids can plug their crap in while flying and I can plug, up to a 10A (I wouldn't go over 5) charger. Works well and very convenient!

You have to ignore the pimpmobile carpet!

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Is that 10A limit due to an inline fuse?  I assume you don't have a circuit breaker on that.

[Guitarmaster]

Just now, mooniac15u said:

Is that 10A limit due to an inline fuse?  I assume you don't have a circuit breaker on that.

Yes.  The socket is TSO and rated at 13.5A.  I have it on a 10A fuse so no more than 8A would be allowable.

[Guitarmaster]

They way I use it is to plug it in a day before I go fly again IF the plane has sat for a extended period simply to top it off and I don't have a surprise of not starting at 0400 on my way to work.

As far as a maintainer, I think they can mask a problem battery.  Maybe Clarence can chime in, but since the master relay is turned off, there should be zero draw and a good battery should last a LONG time.

[mooniac15u]

40 minutes ago, Guitarmaster said:

They way I use it is to plug it in a day before I go fly again IF the plane has sat for a extended period simply to top it off and I don't have a surprise of not starting at 0400 on my way to work.

As far as a maintainer, I think they can mask a problem battery.  Maybe Clarence can chime in, but since the master relay is turned off, there should be zero draw and a good battery should last a LONG time.

Zero draw unless one of your passengers leaves something plugged into that port where you bypassed the master switch. 

[Guitarmaster]

Yes. That is a post flight check item!!

[carusoam]

On the O, the cigar lighter is hot (connected, not warm) all the time...

Don't forget to start a new checklist for all the temporary electronics that get plugged in, connected via wifi, and then disconnected...

It doesn't take long for a sky radar to kill off a Gill battery... The IP has a couple of other things that maintain memory too...clock and Fuel totalizer...

Best regards,

-a-

[Vance Harral]

For what it's worth, our '76F frequently goes a couple of weeks between flights, and has for over a decade.  We've never bothered with a battery charger, and haven't had any trouble.  No failed starts, no short battery life (last battery went 7 years).  The airplane does have an analog clock that runs all the time, so there's always a small load, but that doesn't seem to be an issue.  Climate-wise, we have low humidity here, but it frequently gets over 90 in the summer and well below freezing in the winter.  The airplane lives in a hangar, but not an insulated one.

I confess I don't understand the fascination with Battery Minder and similar products for people who fly at least once a month.  I can see it being helpful if an airplane is going to sit for several months.  But I just don't think a healthy battery needs help holding a charge for a couple of weeks, in any reasonable climate.  For what it's worth, we've run Concorde batteries for many years, which have a stellar reputation.  But even the old Gill held up fine for weeks at a time.

Not trying to denigrate anyone's good experience with the Battery Minder.  I completely understand every situation is different, and maybe we're just a tad lucky.  But I'd suggest skipping the cost and wiring of a Battery Minder until/unless you've had an actual weak start.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Vance Harral

[Hank]

Me, too Vance, both on the OH/WV border and here in AL. But it's about time to replace my Concorde, installed 12/2010. Guess I can't complain about the life . . .

[ArtVandelay]

Batteries lose their charge as they sit, a wet battery loses about 20% over a month.

It takes over an hour to fully charge a battery assuming you have a big enough alternator to supply power for charging and avionics. Gels hold their charge better.

If you fly infrequently and then only for short flights you'll have problems.

[Marauder]

For what it's worth, our '76F frequently goes a couple of weeks between flights, and has for over a decade.  We've never bothered with a battery charger, and haven't had any trouble.  No failed starts, no short battery life (last battery went 7 years).  The airplane does have an analog clock that runs all the time, so there's always a small load, but that doesn't seem to be an issue.  Climate-wise, we have low humidity here, but it frequently gets over 90 in the summer and well below freezing in the winter.  The airplane lives in a hangar, but not an insulated one.

I confess I don't understand the fascination with Battery Minder and similar products for people who fly at least once a month.  I can see it being helpful if an airplane is going to sit for several months.  But I just don't think a healthy battery needs help holding a charge for a couple of weeks, in any reasonable climate.  For what it's worth, we've run Concorde batteries for many years, which have a stellar reputation.  But even the old Gill held up fine for weeks at a time.

Not trying to denigrate anyone's good experience with the Battery Minder.  I completely understand every situation is different, and maybe we're just a tad lucky.  But I'd suggest skipping the cost and wiring of a Battery Minder until/unless you've had an actual weak start.

I'm on the other side of this discussion. My Concorde RG just hit 12 years old and is still passing on load testing. I have been maintaining the battery on a charger since Day 1. At Oshkosh, I met up with the Concorde battery folks and asked why my battery has lasted 12 years (I changed the last one out at 7 years despite not seeing any problems). They told me sulfation is the leading killer of our batteries (http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/sulfation_and_how_to_prevent_it). Either flying it long enough or maintaining it with a charger that can deal with sulfation will help.

I have been using a BatteryMinder mostly in the winter when I fly less. Does it make a difference? I'm happy seeing 12 years on a battery.

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[Vance Harral]

12 years and counting is really impressive, Marauder, I thought we were doing great at 7.  But with an RG-35a running $300, our amortized cost over the 7 years was only $43/year.  Pretty cheap on the AMU scale, and avoids having another gizmo associated with maintaining the airplane.

I'm sure once you get over the hump of the initial wiring, it's trivial to plug in a Battery Minder when you leave the hangar.  I don't mean to imply it's a lot of trouble, and I'm not really arguing against their use - I understand why they're beneficial.  I just think some owners get the idea via forum lore that our batteries are more fragile than they really are.  Trying to provide a real-world data point from the other side.

[Andy95W]

I put a 1-year old Concorde RG-35 in my Piper Aztec.  I bought the battery used because the previous owner thought there was something wrong with it.  That one 12-volt battery was responsible for TWO IO-540 engine starts every time I flew, which was about once every 2-3 weeks.  I NEVER used a battery tender of any sort.

7 years later I sold the airplane with the same battery, still doing great.

[HRM]

17 hours ago, Vance Harral said:

I confess I don't understand the fascination with Battery Minder and similar products for people who fly at least once a month.  I can see it being helpful if an airplane is going to sit for several months.  But I just don't think a healthy battery needs help holding a charge for a couple of weeks, in any reasonable climate.  For what it's worth, we've run Concorde batteries for many years, which have a stellar reputation.  But even the old Gill held up fine for weeks at a time.

 

I used to be religious about hooking up a Battery Minder all of the time after every flight...until it cooked a Concord.

My current Concord goes for weeks and then starts her up in a couple of blades. Give it a good hour or so flight and all is good.

By a quality battery, fly it, and sleep well.

[slowflyin]

I use a battery minder that is specifically designed for a Concorde aviation battery on my Mooney with excellent results. It has a temp sensor attached to the battery and I'm very comfortable leaving it running in my absence. In the summer its not much of an issue but I think it is valuable in the low temps we have in the winter. Brisk starts durIng the bitter cold are the norm. Nothing scientific but my battery challenges are nonexistent since I bought a quality charger/maintainer. My experience, less money spent on batteries and great starts year around.

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[bjoseph604]

17 minutes ago, slowflyin said:

I use a battery minder that is specifically designed for a Concorde aviation battery on my Mooney with excellent results. It has a temp sensor attached to the battery and I'm very comfortable leaving it running in my absence. In the summer its not much of an issue but I think it is valuable in the low temps we have in the winter. Brisk starts durIng the bitter cold are the norm. Nothing scientific but my battery challenges are nonexistent since I bought a quality charger/maintainer. My experience, less money spent on batteries and great starts year around.

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Can you tell me which one you use?  How does it connect to charge the battery?

[slowflyin]

http://www.batteryminders.com/batteryminder-model-128cec1-aa-s5-12v-8-amp-concorde-aviation-battery-charger-maintainer-desulfator/

This is the newer version of what I use.     Of note; I've used it on a Concorde for six years while my business partner chose not to on his Skyhawk.  

Same environment-comparable flight times- both have Skytec starters- one IO360- O360 and we just replaced his Concorde after 36 months.    Scientific, heck no but he just bought the unit above.   

 

[Hank]

I put a Concorde in my C model with O-360. I'm thinking hard about changing it now, but discovered slight corrosion on the negative terminal. I'm now in observation mode--clean it up, spray it to stay clean, how well does it perform. Original installation 12/2010, never even seen a Battery Minder. Moved the plane from the OH/WV/KY border to Lower Alabama in April '14.