2 mooney questions

[eman1200]

A)  were there actually variable pitch mooney's as opposed to constant speed?  I didn't know that, if that's the case.

2) why do I see on a bunch of the vintage mooneys the prop control knob thing-a-ma-jiggy is black and not blue, like most other planes or later mooneys?  are they hard to find?  hard to paint?  something preventing you from putting a blue knob on?

thanks and happy friday!

[eman1200]

I didn't think the questions were THAT stupid....

[Andy95W]

Not stupid questions at all!  Trust me, we've seen our share of stupid questions here just in the past month, so we know what they look like ...

All modern  Mooneys from the M20A on were constant speed props, not sure about the Mooney Mite, though. 

As to the knob color- starting in the early 60's they were silver in color. As they went bad people changed them out with whatever their mechanic would recommend until the FAA decided to standardize the shape and color for all three controls. 

Yes, at this point, it is very able to be switched out for a blue knobbed one. I'll be doing just that to mine in the next month. 

[mooniac15u]

The type certificate lists a McCauley fixed pitch propeller as an option for the M20D. I think it was intended for the fixed gear configuration with an upgrade to the constant speed propeller when converting to retractable gear. 

[cctsurf]

Usually a variable pitch propeller is a constant speed propeller, I don't know of a mooney with a variable pitch prop that is not constant speed, going all the way back to the M20, some had fixed pitch propellers, specifically the M20D, I don't think other models did.  I looked at a m20a not that long ago it had a constant speed, but I don't know if all of them were...  I know you could get the 'D with a constant speed prop or with the fixed pitch variety.

As for the differently colored prop control, standardization (as with the panels) didn't come until later.  You may have seen an early model M20? with the "shotgun" panel?  As with standardization of the 6-pack, so also the control color was standardized after many of the mooneys were produced.

I really look forward to changing out my old oddly colored control asap, but the aviation budget is kinda low right now.  If you have an old dark one, I would highly suggest changing the cable. Mooney service bulletin M20-174 specifies their replacement in 1969.  I'm not certain that it would have a blue knob at that point, but they are now suggested to be changed at engine overhaul time.

[Bob_Belville]

I replaced all 3 cables last year. A previous owner had installed new ACS cables in 1997 as part of a panel upgrade. I went with McFarlane which is a little more expensive but higher quality. My mixture cable was so stiff when cold that it would not move. The prop cable had enough play in it that RPM fluctuated more than I thought was acceptable. 

McFarlane recommends that the service life of control cables ought to be the same as the engine so any vintage bird that still has original cables is over TBO! 

http://www.mcfarlaneaviation.com/Content.aspx?ID=75231147&Article=11

There is at least one previous thread here worth searching for if someone is upgrading. 

 

[Mooneymite]

Some M18 Mites were equipped with Flottorp controllable pitch propellers, but they weren't  constant speed.  Neither the Lycoming, nor the Continental 65's had shafts that would enable constant speed propellers.

http://www.mooneymite.com/articles-history/flightmag1953article.htm

[cctsurf]

1 hour ago, Bob_Belville said:

I went with McFarlane which is a little more expensive but higher quality.

Mooney cables are McFarlane.  The one I just had installed had the Mooney part number on it, but also had the McFarlane written all over it as well.  Sorry, there is no difference.  Without the Mooney number, you have to install it as an owner produced part...

One minor note in that, I found a fair amount of difference between the Mooney service centers for the price of the cable.  It's well worth calling around to find the best price.

[Bob_Belville]

8 hours ago, cctsurf said:

Mooney cables are McFarlane.  The one I just had installed had the Mooney part number on it, but also had the McFarlane written all over it as well.  Sorry, there is no difference.  Without the Mooney number, you have to install it as an owner produced part...

One minor note in that, I found a fair amount of difference between the Mooney service centers for the price of the cable.  It's well worth calling around to find the best price.

Yes, Mooney uses McFarlane. My quality comparison was to the ACS. So don't be sorry for misunderstanding my post. 

As you know, McFarlane cannot simply sell you the cables they make for Mooneys as such. But when you send them your old cable or fill out their spec sheet with measurements they can sell you a "owner produce part" that will no doubt match what they make for Mooney.  (McFarlane provides the language for the A&P's use in your log.) 

I went with McFarlane direct at the suggestion on one of our best MSCs. I removed the cables  took the measurements, emailed to McFarlane the same day and the cables were made the next day. It was a great experience. It was less about price than speed and customer service. In the case of the throttle McFarlane failed to mill the slot for the limit switch. When notified of the oversight they immediately took responsibility, made a new cable the same day and shipped it next-day-air. I did the removal and most of the installation. My A&P checked my work and made the log entries.

I highly recommend going that route.      

[garytex]

The only variable pitch (as opposed to constant speed) prop that I know of was on the first year of production Belanca Cruismasters, the 14-19 series, around 1949-50. Pilot set the pitch, and engine would slow if climbing and speed up in a dive.  Lycoming O-435 engine. Airplane was tube and rag taildragger with RG like a DC3. Triple tail and really pretty wood wings. Next year and thereafter produced with an O-470 and CS prop.

This was a follow on to the 14-17 series powered with 150 or 165 hp Franklin engines, some with Aeromatic props that would automatically shift to a higher pitch after leveling off.

Fuselage was designed to be a lifting body, made for really Art Deco looking plane.

Still see a few around.

[carusoam]

Looks like an Al Mooney tail dragger (GaryTex)

https://www.barnstormers.com/listing_images.php?id=1116518

Best regards,

-a-

[jetdriven]

1947~1955 bonanzas had an electric variable pitch prop. Some smart guy invented a solid state electric prop controller that would effectively turn it into something akin to a constant speed prop.  With that big 470 inch engine swinging an 88" prop at 2100 RPM it sure felt like a good match. 

 

Oh oh and when the generator goes TU and that prop is in cruise pitch for high speed it sure won't pull good when you get low and slow on final, or so "a friend" told me, back in 1997

Edited May 5, 2016 by jetdriven

[takair]

On April 30, 2016 at 8:05 AM, Bob_Belville said:

Yes, Mooney uses McFarlane. My quality comparison was to the ACS. So don't be sorry for misunderstanding my post. 

As you know, McFarlane cannot simply sell you the cables they make for Mooneys as such. But when you send them your old cable or fill out their spec sheet with measurements they can sell you a "owner produce part" that will no doubt match what they make for Mooney.  (McFarlane provides the language for the A&P's use in your log.) 

I went with McFarlane direct at the suggestion on one of our best MSCs. I removed the cables  took the measurements, emailed to McFarlane the same day and the cables were made the next day. It was a great experience. It was less about price than speed and customer service. In the case of the throttle McFarlane failed to mill the slot for the limit switch. When notified of the oversight they immediately took responsibility, made a new cable the same day and shipped it next-day-air. I did the removal and most of the installation. My A&P checked my work and made the log entries.

I highly recommend going that route.      

Bob

Do you still have a copy of the filled out forms?  I want to order new cables, but don't want to put the plane down to remove the cables and measure.  

Thanks

Rob

[cctsurf]

Rob,

Like I said above, contact a few service centers, the price difference between a mooney certified cable one from mcfarlane as an owner produced part, is approximately the price of shipping.

Here's a thread with a lot of info on both processes.

http://mooneyspace.com/topic/9818-wanted-propeller-control-cable

James

[Bob_Belville]

2 hours ago, takair said:

Bob

Do you still have a copy of the filled out forms?  I want to order new cables, but don't want to put the plane down to remove the cables and measure.  

Thanks

Rob

Yes, I have the forms for all 3. Send me a PM with your email and I'll send the pdf files. But... I would be cautious. Mine are for a '66E you really need to verify the dimensions for your own plane. But if you plan it right you're only talking about a week downtime. Pull the cable measure and email the form, they'll ship in a couple of days from receipt. If you do it at annual or other maintenance it wouldn't cost any extra time.

[Steveolyo]

I'd like to find a blue colored prop knob for my M20F, but I cant seem to find one. N1395W mentioned he was changing his out for a blue one. Anyone know where I can get a blue one for my plane?

[Marauder]

1 hour ago, Steveolyo said:

I'd like to find a blue colored prop knob for my M20F, but I cant seem to find one. N1395W mentioned he was changing his out for a blue one. Anyone know where I can get a blue one for my plane?

Blue Krylon paint for plastics.

 

[Hank]

Personally, I don't much care what color the knobs are. Two are black, one is red--that works for me. I know the middle one with ridges on top is the prop. If I had to tear the quadrant apart and a blue one was sitting there, I'm not even sure I'd bother to change it out. If it was broken or chipped, I'd out on whatever I could find that fit; shoot, I might even carve me a new wooden one.

[carusoam]

Or....

Search for owner supplied parts knobs....

you should get plenty of details regarding the one supplier to the industry and pricing and proper method of making it legal...

Not as cost effective as the suggestions by the fine pilots above though^^^.

Best regards,

-a-

[Andy95W]

11 hours ago, Steveolyo said:

I'd like to find a blue colored prop knob for my M20F, but I cant seem to find one. N1395W mentioned he was changing his out for a blue one. Anyone know where I can get a blue one for my plane?

You wouldn't be able to just change the knob, but when it comes time to change the whole cable assembly, you call McFarlane and give them the cable length and rod end attachment and then it can be installed as an owner supplied part- with a brand new blue knob.

[Hank]

5 hours ago, N1395W said:

You wouldn't be able to just change the knob, but when it comes time to change the whole cable assembly, you call McFarlane and give them the cable length and rod end attachment and then it can be installed as an owner supplied part- with a brand new blue knob.

Not true--steveolyo has an F, which should have the same quadrant shown in Marauder's picture. There's just a screw holding the prop knob to the lever, it should be easy to replace the knob.

[Steveolyo]

Yes, its the same type as in Mauraders picture. 

It's not that I ever get the knobs confused, Blue is standard and I want to keep my plane up to standards. I'll try the Krylon, Thanks for the help and opinions.