What Does this Instruction Mean?

[kortopates]

" distance to Middle of the airport" is exactly what I would expect for a VFR arrival. The only time I would know to the threshold is on a IFR approach and guess what - the tower doesn't give such instructions to an IFR arrival. They may ask to report at the MAP or instruct how to circle. So getting back to the VFR arrival we have no simple means to give any distance but our current distance from the middle of the airport. As for the instruction I would assume a normal pattern unless otherwise instructed and always be listening for other traffic. And as has been pointed out, ask to clarify if any doubt or confusion.

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[Shadrach]

49 minutes ago, Mike261 said:

Here is published advise from the FAA control tower at aurora municipal airport in illinois: their bold emphasis not mine. linky:http://www.auroraairport.com/businesses/tower.htm

8.  Give the Tower accurate position and distance reports. Pattern entry and landing sequence are based on your reports. To aid you and the Controller, become familiar with local reporting points (as shown on the Chicago VFR Terminal Area Chart). Enter the traffic pattern at the position the Tower instructs (base, crosswind, downwind). If unable to do so, advise. Base all distances from the middle of the airport.

This thread is interesting because I've always thought that pilots typically want to simplify instructions, yet we have the exact opposite here.  FAA gives a simple request and it's the pilots that want to deduce all manner of wacky calculations that were never asked for.

[flyboy0681]

Let's face it, unless you are on base which extends ten miles from the center line of the runway, to me the reporting point means to the airport proper.

[Guest Mike261]

And it brings up another point... a 3 mile final is three miles from the center of the airport. so if your 3 miles out from a 5000 foot runway, youre 2.5 miles from the threshold.

 

[Mooneymite]

2 hours ago, Mike261 said:

And it brings up another point... a 3 mile final is three miles from the center of the airport. so if your 3 miles out from a 5000 foot runway, youre 2.5 miles from the threshold.

Interesting.....I've always presumed that reporting distances on final were to the threshold.

I've scoured my aviation sources, but can't find an authoritative source (I.E. not a "local interpretation") that delineates this.  

While I agree that reports of distance to the airport should be to the center point of the airport, I'm not sure that a 3 mile final isn't predicated on distance from threshold IFR, or VFR.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Mooneymite

[MARZ]

I'm simple minded - and will probably get yelled at should I go there but whatever section of the pattern is just that -

downwind

base

final

the first drawing to me results in a three mile final

the second drawing and what I would interpret as the controllers request is a three mile approach on the base leg with a normal turn to final

in my short flying time the class D's I've flow into set up with an X mile call to mid field downwind.  With a couple exceptions to a x mile straight in.

My GPS gives the distance so when it hits the desired distance I key up.

 

Edited March 3, 2016 by Mike Ropers

[Shadrach]

4 hours ago, Mike261 said:

And it brings up another point... a 3 mile final is three miles from the center of the airport. so if your 3 miles out from a 5000 foot runway, youre 2.5 miles from the threshold.

 

Whenever my home tower gives my position on final to other aircraft, they use the threshold. I know this because my typical pattern usually shows me at about 1.2 GPS from the airport when base to final and they have often cleared other traffic "#2 behind the Mooney on half mile final"

[kortopates]

2 hours ago, Mike261 said: And it brings up another point... a 3 mile final is three miles from the center of the airport. so if your 3 miles out from a 5000 foot runway, youre 2.5 miles from the threshold.

 

Whenever my home tower gives my position on final to other aircraft, they use the threshold. I know this because my typical pattern usually shows me at about 1.2 GPS from the airport base to final and they have often cleared other traffic "#2 behind the Mooney on half mile final"

Absolutely, but that's because they can. They've been able to calibrate their distances from radar and landmarks. But they are not expecting that from us. They know our GPS distance is based on airport center and I don't believe they are ever expecting us to adjust that.

They just want the hapless pilot that is reporting an estimated distance not to be off by 5 miles or looking down at a landmark that is still ahead by a few miles yet say they are passing over it. Those are real everyday errors that drive controllers and other pilots nuts because they are miles away from where they say they are.

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[Guest Mike261]

3 hours ago, Mooneymite said:

Interesting.....I've always presumed that reporting distances on final were to the threshold.

I've scoured my aviation sources, but can't find an authoritative source (I.E. not a "local interpretation") that delineates this.  

While I agree that reports of distance to the airport should be to the center point of the airport, I'm not sure that a 3 mile final isn't predicated on distance from threshold IFR, or VFR.

way way back when i learned to fly, when there were only open cockpits...i learned to report distance from the little square with the dot on the sectional, even on final. i have looked for some rule about this all over. Nada. i always thought it odd, the pease airport where i like to practice aborted takeoffs is 10000 feet long. a one mile final report would be almost at the threshold. i took it with a grain of salt and mostly report to the threshold close in. The convention must exist somewhere, the local interpretation is in fact from an FAA tower, hence FAA controllers. someone needs to get to the bottom of this.

mike

[Shadrach]

17 minutes ago, Mike261 said:

way way back when i learned to fly, when there were only open cockpits...i learned to report distance from the little square with the dot on the sectional, even on final. i have looked for some rule about this all over. Nada. i always thought it odd, the pease airport where i like to practice aborted takeoffs is 10000 feet long. a one mile final report would be almost at the threshold. i took it with a grain of salt and mostly report to the threshold close in. The convention must exist somewhere, the local interpretation is in fact from an FAA tower, hence FAA controllers. someone needs to get to the bottom of this.

mike

I have followed a C5 into Pease a time or 2...  Sometimes I need a Lobsta role from Newick's and nothing else will do...

[Hank]

I just report whatever is showing on the 430W.

note:  the reference point is not always at the center of the airport. Check the A/FD. 

[Guest Mike261]

no its not always in the center, but its generally pretty close. its defined as the geographical confluence of the runways and some other shit.

[kortopates]

I just report whatever is showing on the 430W.

note:  the reference point is not always at the center of the airport. Check the A/FD. 

I understand you're saying it's not always the geometric center of all the runways as the AFD states behind their definition of the lat long coordinates? Interesting, I have not seen such an exception yet. Could you point me to one. Thanks

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