Ulrimate M20J?

[Bob_Belville]

 

5) There isn't a family on planet earth that wants to sit in any vehicle that long, even if it is going to Disneyworld.

6) Stopping halfway is the usual plan for my family of four.

Selecting a plane is going to be a challenge. There isn't enough useful load or speed or efficiency in any one plane.

It is going to be challenging to get anyone to commit to spending $200k on a Long Body without the previous experience of a similar plane.

The M20E is my outlook for post retirement Mooney travel.  Consider that, lower cost.  Not cheap. Because having all the updates to keep grandma comfortable in IMC is not inexpensive. The +2 part requires some detailed checking based on the size and comfort levels of all four people.

Thoughts that come to mind,

-a-

+1.

I'm retired and I chose a completely modded out '66E in Feb. 2012. Added an IFR panel w GPSS, weather/traffic Nov. 2012.

Our NC to MA/ME flights are 2 legs, under 3 hours each, usually LNS to stretch, potty, fuel. Cruise 150 kt plus on under 10 gph. Empty weight is 1675 so we can take anything we can fit in the plane.

Manual gear, simple and relatively cheap to maintain - owner assist annuals under 1 AMU.  

I might treat the old girl to a spiffier paint job to celebrate her 50th year. 

[Danb]

Mooney single place plane with L/R tanks...........Approx. 1000 lbs.  On most trips we add fuel needed to complete the mission and then adjust wgt. of bags generally if the trip is long we will back off the power to economy which gives us 6 to 6.5 hours plus reserves, point being a Mooney with L/R tanks makes for a real personal airliner.

 

 

110 gal...................650 lbs.

wife/pilot................300 lbs.

light bags...............  35 lbs.

Total.....................985 lbs.

[gsengle]

I liked the idea of adding the long range tanks until I realized that stock my Ovation would get me MA to FL nonstop and would allow 6 hours in the air...

What useful load do the long range tanks cost even empty? I don't want to give up another pound of my 940

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[Danb]

Since we all differing objectives, the purchase of the L/R tanks was one of the better items I've ever bought,  Syn. Vision being the other. The nice thing about them is you don't have to use them, but there really nice when you do. I figure on all long cross country's if you value your time they end up paying for themselves. But you don't miss them if you've never had them. I guess we're all spoiled.

[MyNameIsNobody]

Ultimate J thread, right?

[gsengle]

Yep the ultimate J is an O

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[ArtVandelay]

I'm not an O fan, if I was going big, I'd go turbo with TKS.

[gsengle]

Just don't love that thirsty Lyc

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[M20F-1968]

Thanks for the nice comments earlier in the thread.

I did my instrument training in a Grumman Tiger.  All my time from 50 hrs - 125 was done in Oregon, in actual conditions, dual, working toward my Instrument license.

It is a fun little plane, but certainly not as stable nor as substantial as the Mooney.   It is a sensitive, slippery plane, but the Mooney is still more stable, feels heavier on the controls but just as sensitive, is more stable and is faster.  To its credit, the canopy of the Tiger is fun and easier to get in and out of.

For what it is worth, some numbers on my plane are:

10,000 ft = 162 kts true (that is with 90 gallons onboard)

17,000 ft = 170-175 kts true - still testing at this altitude

carries 94 gallons.  At 160 kts/hr = 14,730 mile range with >10 gallons reserve

When you are in the CB club, you can load up on cheap avgas even if you are not taking a long trip.

986 useful load

Turbonormalizing makes it a very different airplane than normally aspirated, without the maintenance complexities of turbocharging.

Simplicity of the IO-360, not nose heavy.

John Breda

[M20F-1968]

Also, it answer to the first post, I have done all of the speed mods I can think of.  It does not have inner gear doors however due to the Johnson Bar.

It has all gap seals, one piece belly, J model cowling and windshield, overlapping gear doors, tail side fairings, wing root fairings, hinge covers (except for outer flap hinge covers),

Ovation door hardware, NACA side vents, Ovation dorsal fine with NACA duct, retractable step, 1/4" glass.

John Breda

[Shadrach]

For what it is worth, some numbers on my plane are:

10,000 ft = 162 kts true (that is with 90 gallons onboard)

17,000 ft = 170-175 kts true - still testing at this altitude

carries 94 gallons.  At 160 kts/hr = 14,730 mile range with >10 gallons reserve

When you are in the CB club, you can load up on cheap avgas even if you are not taking a long trip.

986 useful load

Turbonormalizing makes it a very different airplane than normally aspirated, without the maintenance complexities of turbocharging.

Simplicity of the IO-360, not nose heavy.

John Breda

John I think you've added an extra digit there!

[Deb]

carries 94 gallons.  At 160 kts/hr = 14,730 mile range with >10 gallons reserve

John,

Since the world is only ~25,000 miles in circumference, I would have thought that 12,500 mile range would have been enough. Good to know you've planned for contingencies! 

CarolAnn is going to be very envious!

[gsengle]

I guess sometimes you want to take the scenic route?!

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[lfgbrd]

carries 94 gallons.  At 160 kts/hr = 14,730 mile range with >10 gallons reserve

I know Mooneys are efficient, but how'd you manage the 1gph?!

[PMD]

Thanks for today's input.   I am a long way away from coming to final conclusion.  I still like the 4 cyl option, even though the costs of going to extreme loom quite large. As I mentioned:  it is immediately attainable with later model airplane, but comes with immediate bill as well.

Grandma used to sit through one or two fuel stops in Tiger days, so on rare occasions when truly long legs are called for, she is still up for it.  As has been mentioned, just having the capacity does not demand that one fills the tanks - and certainly with some of the larger capacities, the back seats are useless without dramatic reduction in range (but not planned as a frequent need for next plane - thus the 2+2 comment).  As has been mentioned:  you don't miss a lot of fuel capacity if you have never had it.  Years of flying in the bush with very few fuel stops available, and a LONG distance to alternates left me with a real desire to have that option, even if rarely used.

 

[ryoder]

Isn't a heavily modded E more efficient than a J?  Find any of those in your searches?  There was one one that was modded to the hilt and was cut down to vfr only to reduce weight and antenna drag.  It didn't even have wingwalk tape on it.

[ArtVandelay]

Isn't a heavily modded E more efficient than a J?  Find any of those in your searches?  There was one one that was modded to the hilt and was cut down to vfr only to reduce weight and antenna drag.  It didn't even have wingwalk tape on it.

Maybe true, less weight, less lift required, less drag. Modern Js have wing tips with internal antennas and ELT antenna inside the dorsal fairing. My only antennas are Coms, transponder, UAT, and WX10. The WX10 probably the least aerodynamic with its square shape.

[KSMooniac]

The E has a lower gross weight than a J, though, so it limits fuel and payload options a bit even if used as a 2 seater.

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[Shadrach]

Comparing similar mid bodies. All equipment being the same, I think the F is less than 25lbs heavier than an E. Almost identical Cd. 

I think the speed differences are over played. Not because I'm biased, but because the numbers won't support it - triple period

Edited October 10, 2015 by Shadrach

[Bob_Belville]

Comparing similar mid bodies. All equipment being the same, I think the F is less than 25lbs heavier than an E. Almost identical Cd. 

I think the speed differences are over played. Not because I'm biased, but because the numbers won't support it.triple period

It is not easy to find consistent info. This site indicates that all M20Fs, were 1640 empty and M20E (Super 21) were 1575 empty, but later M20E (Chaparrel) were 1600. (My 1966 E left the factory @ 1611# including at lease 20# of radios.)

http://www.pilotfriend.com/aircraft performance/Mooney/41.htm

[MyNameIsNobody]

The Ultimate J is a Long body or an E?  Funny.  The ultimate J is Bennett's.  End of story...

 

(That's how you do a triple period)

[gsengle]

So where can we see photos of the ultimate J

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[Shadrach]

It is not easy to find consistent info. This site indicates that all M20Fs, were 1640 empty and M20E (Super 21) were 2575 empty, but later M20E (Chaparrel) were 1600. (My 1966 E left the factory @ 1611# including at lease 20# of radios.)

http://www.pilotfriend.com/aircraft performance/Mooney/41.htm

I don't have our original W&B in front of me.  We weigh in around 1675lbs right now. What's your current empty weight?

[Bob_Belville]

I don't have our original W&B in front of me.  We weigh in around 1675lbs right now. What's your current empty weight?

Hum, 1675.5 

That's with

• one piece belly (10),
• bladders (30),
• speed brakes (9)
• STEC A/P & Trim (14)

= ~ 63#

So everything else, additional avionics, lighter starter, alternator, offset.

[Shadrach]

Hum, 1675.5 

That's with

• one piece belly (10),
• bladders (30),
• speed brakes (9)
• STEC A/P & Trim (14)

= ~ 63#

So everything else, additional avionics, lighter starter, alternator, offset.

So much for being lighter! 

Seriously though, I've seen pics of your bird! The only thing I have on you is a 1/2 pound and some extra room in back. Your's is far nicer than mine.