Weighing Plane

[markejackson02]

Anyone know where I can get my 201 weighed in/near Houston?

 

Mark Jackson

N201TK KAXH

 

[clh]

You would probably only want to put it on scales for your personal reference.  .  Most planes loose a substantial amount of useful load.  I was quite surprised when K&W weighed mine.

[markejackson02]

You would probably only want to put it on scales for your personal reference.  .  Most planes loose a substantial amount of useful load.  I was quite surprised when K&W weighed mine.

 

Yeah but the last person who did the W&B (in the 80's) in this one screwed it up so badly the Center of Gravity is like two feet in front of the prop.  I resorted to using the factory W&B plus the various installed avionics, etc.

[cliffy]

As said "most" planes gain weight after years of paper W&Bs. Mine actually lost weight as there was a mistake on the original W&B from the factory never caught for 40 years.

If one has no idea what the actual weights are one, really needs to have it weighed.

What's more important than accurate W&B?

Any FBO with maintenance facilities in your area will know of a W&B company. Many "travel" to the airplanes. All 135 airplanes need to be reweighted on a regular basis so even a small 135 outfit might know of someone to do it.

[jlunseth]

Don't.

[Shadrach]

Better to just work out the math than got to the trouble to weigh. It's a "soft" number and always has been. Im 99.99% sure the factory only weighed a small percentage of planes. Take the factory W&B, subtract what's no longer there and add what is currently installed. It's not that hard and it looks like you've already done it. Some IAs have a mental block about math.

[Shadrach]

As said "most" planes gain weight after years of paper W&Bs. Mine actually lost weight as there was a mistake on the original W&B from the factory never caught for 40 years.If one has no idea what the actual weights are one, really needs to have it weighed.What's more important than accurate W&B?

While I'm not saying it's not important, there are a lot of items that are more important to me. Clearly your airplane managed to fly for 40 years without killing anyone. Knowing exactly what my plane weighs is pretty low on hierarchy of concerns. A reasonably calculated W&B is just fine.

[M20F]

This topic always amazes me because you talk about knowingly flying 2lbs over gross on a forum and people go insane about how dangerous you are. You bring up weighing a plane and everyone says don't do it because you will lose useful load.

I reweighed mine immediately when I bought it (against the advice of a top MSC who said of course you will lose useful load). I know exactly what I have and that being said there have been times when I have flow "aggressively" but at least I knew what I was factually working with.

Your mileage may very but to me knowing the facts lets you make much better decisions than doing so in a dream world.

[Marauder]

This topic always amazes me because you talk about knowingly flying 2lbs over gross on a forum and people go insane about how dangerous you are. You bring up weighing a plane and everyone says don't do it because you will lose useful load.

I reweighed mine immediately when I bought it (against the advice of a top MSC who said of course you will lose useful load). I know exactly what I have and that being said there have been times when I have flow "aggressively" but at least I knew what I was factually working with.

Your mileage may very but to me knowing the facts lets you make much better decisions than doing so in a dream world.

So how far off was it?

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[cliffy]

I GAINED 90 pounds of useful load when I reweighed it.

Yes the figures were checked 3 times and the scales were checked twice and they were

in calibration time limits.

[ArtVandelay]

My calculated weight is about 40lbs heavier than it was when it was new...seems reasonable to me

[jetdriven]

You would probably only want to put it on scales for your personal reference. . Most planes loose a substantial amount of useful load. I was quite surprised when K&W weighed mine.

How much weight did you gain?

They aren't weighing my plane if I can help it. My W&B is legal. Given that later models have a 260 lb higher gross weight with no changes is good enough for me. For those that claim the steel tubing is thicker on those planes, what about the Rocket. It's 460 lbs heavier than my plane. Same from firewall back.

[StinkBug]

This topic always amazes me because you talk about knowingly flying 2lbs over gross on a forum and people go insane about how dangerous you are. You bring up weighing a plane and everyone says don't do it because you will lose useful load.

I reweighed mine immediately when I bought it (against the advice of a top MSC who said of course you will lose useful load). I know exactly what I have and that being said there have been times when I have flow "aggressively" but at least I knew what I was factually working with.

Your mileage may very but to me knowing the facts lets you make much better decisions than doing so in a dream world.

I'm with this guy. Getting your plane weighed doesntbmake you lose usable load,it prevents you from overloading due to ignorance. In my case putting it on scales lost me a whopping 12 lbs, but gained me a confidence that when I'm calculating my w&b it's not based on fairy dust and dreams.

I just asked my a&p. He had a guy and got it done.

[Guest]

I find it humorous that pilots will spend money on the latest gizmo, spend $1000 on GAMI nozzles to squeak another .1 GPH for efficiency etc. yet stick their head in the sand when it comes to knowing the true weight and centre of gravity of their plane.

Flying within the envelope but slightly aft yields efficiency as well.

I applaud the posted for wanting to know.

Clarence

[Marauder]

I find it humorous that pilots will spend money on the latest gizmo, spend $1000 on GAMI nozzles to squeak another .1 GPH for efficiency etc. yet stick their head in the sand when it comes to knowing the true weight and centre of gravity of their plane.

Flying within the envelope but slightly aft yields efficiency as well.

I applaud the posted for wanting to know.

Clarence

I'm willing to bet they don't get on a scale themselves. If I am taking one of my girls flying, not only do I know how much they weigh, I know how many pounds they ate at breakfast before the flight

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[Shadrach]

I think it's silly that people get religious about it one way or the other. The W&B as delivered from the factory, may or may not be the result of an actual weigh in. It may not have been accurate to the pound, but It certainly should be close enough. Over the span of their lives, most airplanes will have many equipment changes. These changes are documented and W&B is revised unless the changes are so minuscule as to qualify as negligible under the regs. This leaves light weight items like dirt, wiring, insulation, etc. as factors that cause actual weight to differ from calculated. My opinion is that it is much ado about nothing. If you want to reweigh it, go for it. If you don't, then don't. As long as the W&B represents the installed equipment, I see no reason to put it on the scales.

I think the main reason that people get worked up over folks intentionally loading over gross is that it displays an anti-authority attitude toward the regs that we must all abide by. Not because the airplane is dangerous when it's 50 lbs over gross.

It's a soft or "fuzzy" number, that is unless you're going to keep you airplane on a scale and weigh it loaded before every flight. Passenger weights alone can vary by 5 lbs or more each depending on shoes, jackets, car keys, breakfast...or passenger optimism.

If it makes you feel safer to have it reweighed great! If it makes you feel superior...well I think we can all agree that you're awesome, safety minded folks to be held in high esteem for your devotion to accuracy. Here's to you!

[chrisk]

I'm with this guy. Getting your plane weighed doesntbmake you lose usable load,it prevents you from overloading due to ignorance. In my case putting it on scales lost me a whopping 12 lbs, but gained me a confidence that when I'm calculating my w&b it's not based on fairy dust and dreams.

I just asked my a&p. He had a guy and got it done.

 

I agree an accurate weight and balance allows you to operate your plane within tested and certified maximum W&B.   But it doesn't mean the plane falls out of the sky because you are overweight by 15 pounds.  For me, it comes down to all the variables and how much error is in them.   Does your plane have the identical wing, engine, and prop of the plane used for testing?  No, and it will fly a little different than what the factory tested.  Can you read the performance charts to 15 pounds of accuracy?  I can't.   And if I am going to be operating in an environment where an extra 15 lbs makes the difference in clearing a 50 object, I'm going to be 200 lbs below that.

 

So, in the end I ask my self why I would spend the money to weigh my plane.  Any difference in W&B (positive or negative) is likely in the margin of error.  And I'd probably be better off spending that money on other maintenance, like getting the mags inspected at 500 hours.

[Bob - S50]

When we did out panel mods we took weight out at so many locations that we decided to weigh it.  I was hoping to gain useful load with all the equipment we took out but had heard horror stories about losing useful load when weighing.  Only gained about a pound of useful load.  Wasn't nearly as horrifying as I had heard.  We have since removed a couple more items and changed starters so we are up about 10 pounds right now from when we bought it.

 

Put me in the its better to know category.

 

Bob

[Shadrach]

I agree an accurate weight and balance allows you to operate your plane within tested and certified maximum W&B.   But it doesn't mean the plane falls out of the sky because you are overweight by 15 pounds.  For me, it comes down to all the variables and how much error is in them.   Does your plane have the identical wing, engine, and prop of the plane used for testing?  No, and it will fly a little different than what the factory tested.  Can you read the performance charts to 15 pounds of accuracy?  I can't.   And if I am going to be operating in an environment where an extra 15 lbs makes the difference in clearing a 50 object, I'm going to be 200 lbs below that.

 

So, in the end I ask my self why I would spend the money to weigh my plane.  Any difference in W&B (positive or negative) is likely in the margin of error.  And I'd probably be better off spending that money on other maintenance, like getting the mags inspected at 500 hours.

 

I think this is the most well reasoned approach.  I think it's kind of a waste of resources and time.  Spending several hours in your plane with an instructor that will identify your weaknesses and help you improve is a far wiser use of resources IMHO.  

[Shadrach]

I'm willing to bet they don't get on a scale themselves. If I am taking one of my girls flying, not only do I know how much they weigh, I know how many pounds they ate at breakfast before the flight

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When I took my PPL check ride in a 66 C150F, the DPE who I'd never met told me over the phone "figure me at 225lbs". When I arrived at KLAF the next day and he walked out of the FBO to greet me, I realized just how optimistic he had been.  We'd have needed to amputate a leg and an arm to get anywhere close to 225lbs.  At the time I weighed 170lbs. That 150 had about 510lbs. useful IIRC.  With 15 gals on board, I am sure we were over gross by at least 30lbs.  It was August in Indiana, and that 150 climbed accordingly. Thank god we didn't crash and burn... 

[markejackson02]

In this case it is more wanting to know.  The last W&B was ~20 years ago.  In theory there hasn't been any significant work done since then but I would be surprised if it hasn't changed.  That and the egregious math errors in the last one.

[kmyfm20s]

Does the factory even weigh the planes or do they just assign a weight to the individual parts and add them up? Overweight with in CG scares me less than under weight and out of CG. I don't advocate doing either.

[StinkBug]

*SNIP*  As long as the W&B represents the installed equipment, I see no reason to put it on the scales.

 

 

This is the problem I see. Often times the "current" W&B sheet isn't current at all. When I bought my plane I took one look at the W&B sheet and found a glaring oversight. It had been done when a previous owner installed a 3 blade prop that added 35lbs to the nose. The plane currently has a 2 blade prop on it. Pretty big oversight in there. Scouring through the log books I found all the entries for the prop change, but no W&B entry. I also found no entry for the panel upgrade. This left me wondering just how far off that piece of paper really was. It ended up being close on weight, but nearly a half inch different in CG. 

 

If you're really confident in all the entries and calculations in your log books from the last 40 years, then there shouldn't be a reason to weigh. I'd be surprised to find a plane that old without some omissions and oversights though.

 

 

I agree an accurate weight and balance allows you to operate your plane within tested and certified maximum W&B.   But it doesn't mean the plane falls out of the sky because you are overweight by 15 pounds.  For me, it comes down to all the variables and how much error is in them.   Does your plane have the identical wing, engine, and prop of the plane used for testing?  No, and it will fly a little different than what the factory tested.  Can you read the performance charts to 15 pounds of accuracy?  I can't.   And if I am going to be operating in an environment where an extra 15 lbs makes the difference in clearing a 50 object, I'm going to be 200 lbs below that.

 

So, in the end I ask my self why I would spend the money to weigh my plane.  Any difference in W&B (positive or negative) is likely in the margin of error.  And I'd probably be better off spending that money on other maintenance, like getting the mags inspected at 500 hours.

 

I don't think you have the wrong attitude, we should all be leaving a margin of safety. The problem comes when we're working off of data that's inaccurate. There may come a time when you think you're within limits by a good margin, but since you're working from inaccurate data your margin of safety is actually taken up by the margin of error. See Air Midwest 5481 for an example of how bad math can kill.

[Guest]

I'm willing to bet they don't get on a scale themselves. If I am taking one of my girls flying, not only do I know how much they weigh, I know how many pounds they ate at breakfast before the flight

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Yes, but your girls are slim and trim, true 10's if I've ever seen one.

Clarence

[M20C]

Do you have any RV builders nearby?  An EAA chapter?  Both great resources!!!