Kelly Householder Posted January 17, 2015 Report Posted January 17, 2015 I know very little about the Mooney. Most of the rumors I've heard, as I read more turn out to be false. However I know that from what I've read, for my mission I think I want and M20K 252 or an M20M. I need Turbo, Intercooler, Auto Gate, Built in Ox, the most Payload possible. I'm just wondering if I could get advice on how best to learn more about a Mooney? I'm also looking to find any owners in Boise Idaho Area that might be interested to show me around a bit and perhaps take me for a test flight? Quote
carusoam Posted January 17, 2015 Report Posted January 17, 2015 Welcome aboard Kelly, You might make a statement regarding your experience level. This will help target the responses you are about to receive... One of my favorite resources for the selection process is these guys... http://www.allamericanaircraft.com/default.htm Wait for the next response... Best regards, -a- Quote
RobertGary1 Posted January 17, 2015 Report Posted January 17, 2015 Just read on another thread of a guy who's first annual was $16K. As a result he ditched the plane. Make sure you're ready to own a plane. The purchase price is just the price of admission. I've spent more on my plane in the 15 years of ownership than it costs. I think that's normal. -Robert Quote
bonal Posted January 17, 2015 Report Posted January 17, 2015 Just read on another thread of a guy who's first annual was $16K. As a result he ditched the plane. Make sure you're ready to own a plane. The purchase price is just the price of admission. I've spent more on my plane in the 15 years of ownership than it costs. I think that's normal. -Robert I hope you weren't referring to me cause that's what mine cost and I did not ditch the plane Snoopy fly's great 1 Quote
Kelly Householder Posted January 17, 2015 Author Report Posted January 17, 2015 Good Points.. Experience - CFII Multi-Commercial and currently fly a Cessna 414 Pressurized Twin. I have flown Cirrus, Beech, Piper Turbos, Cessna 182T, etc. I have been flying from the age of 14, but don't want that to sound at any level arrogant, I'm like all pilots, learning every time I fly. I have owned 3 airplanes so the Annual doesn't scare me off, I expect a 10K annual for the first run. I would say 16K is a bit over the top for a mooney from what I have read but perhaps there was something missed on the pre-buy? So overall, speed not a concern my current aircraft has Two RAM VI TSIO-520-NB 335HP engines so engine management is not a concern. I typically book 205kts and I have all weather experience as well (Ice, storms, XC plans, IFR to mins,etc) I'm looking for a step down in Maintenance costs and fuel burn.. 205kts in the 414 yeilds 42GPH burn and 16K a year would be a sweet sound to my wallet after owning a Twin. I often fly high as I'm in the Rockies (Boise) and I fly to Portland, Reno, So Cal, Denver, Sun Valley, Montana, Moscow Idaho, etc. I have family of 4 and we need a plane that can hold us 575lb for all + some luggage. Weekend warriors or day trippers. Denver longest run so need at least 500nm range IFR reserves + people + luggage. Quote
RobertGary1 Posted January 17, 2015 Report Posted January 17, 2015 I hope you weren't referring to me cause that's what mine cost and I did not ditch the plane Snoopy fly's great No, it was a guy named Dave. He said he was going to part his bird out. No update after that. -Robert Quote
carusoam Posted January 17, 2015 Report Posted January 17, 2015 Kelly, The PPI is the part that is unusual for some first time buyers. Some don't use one... Some spend hundreds... Some spend thousands... The MSC is a better grade of supplier of PPIs. Some MSCs are better than others. The PPI should be independent of the shop that did previous MX. There is a treasure of information here about TC'd engines and how they are best operated, as well as others. Best to continue to ask questions as you go along. Also look up transition training. Other names for TC'd and TN'd Mooneys: K, 231, Rocket, M, Bravo (TLS), and my favorite...310HP Acclaim Happy hunting, -a- Quote
yvesg Posted January 17, 2015 Report Posted January 17, 2015 My opinion is that Mooneys are not big enough for a family of four. Even if they are young, this will change and they will outgrow your payload. Yves Quote
carqwik Posted January 17, 2015 Report Posted January 17, 2015 I'll second that...the M20M is a two person and bags plane if you want to go 500nm. You should think about a Piper Matrix for your mission. 1 Quote
Kelly Householder Posted January 17, 2015 Author Report Posted January 17, 2015 Thanks for the feedback, that has been my concern. The matrix is good but MX costs way too much on it, same with most of the Mali's owners I've talked to. Also was looking at the Saratoga as it has a bigger payload and going slower going into a Seneca with Huge payload and keeping me in a twin but stepping down from my current twin. I was hopeful that the M20M Rocket with 1100 usable (Some Iv'e seen) could be a good hauler for me. I dont' always fly with my 4 (my 4 are myself and my wife 17 year old PPL son and 21 Year old IFR Private Son). but we are light in weight. Is there any good 4 person mooney or should I head back to the Saratoga / Senecas? Quote
ArtVandelay Posted January 17, 2015 Report Posted January 17, 2015 My opinion is that Mooneys are not big enough for a family of four. Even if they are young, this will change and they will outgrow your payload. Yves Right, it's all about useful load, find one that doesn't have extra fuel tanks, TKS, A/C....useable will be about 1000lbs or so. Quote
carusoam Posted January 17, 2015 Report Posted January 17, 2015 Does your family of four do well with O2? If no.... Consider the long bodies with the IO550... Eagles (M20S) and Ovations (M20R) can have over 1,000 Lbs UL. They climb up to 12,500' easily. Be aware they come with three different HP ratings. 260?, 280, 310HP. Excess HP is good for T/O distance and climb rate. Cruise speeds (typical). - 175kts, ROP @ 16gph rough numbers from an old memory... - 165kts, LOP @ 13gph rough numbers... Watch the UL if you are looking to add AC and FIKI.... You might really like a Mooney so much you spend time on Saturday to share the word! Best regards, -a- You guys are typing faster than me! Quote
Kelly Householder Posted January 17, 2015 Author Report Posted January 17, 2015 Yes we are ok on O2, we flew an SR22 GTS for 1.5yr and usually we are always up in the FL's. Most of the time we file for 16K or up. Quote
carusoam Posted January 17, 2015 Report Posted January 17, 2015 How does the Acclaim M20TN look to you and your family? Are you considering going back to the SR22 as well? Acclaim...It's one of the best our Mooney community has... You are already familiar with costs. Best regards, -a- Quote
Joe Zuffoletto Posted January 17, 2015 Report Posted January 17, 2015 Here's a data point for annual inspection costs for the M20TN. Just got mine back from its annual. $6,700, but $500 was to install the 310hp upgrade. This is my fourth annual and they run pretty consistently between $6,200-$6,500. OP, what about the Cirrus SR-22T G5? Sounds like it will fit your mission, including a high useful load. Downside is that they cost a huge pile of money right now. Welcome, and good luck! Quote
Guest Posted January 17, 2015 Report Posted January 17, 2015 Kelly, Might I introduce you to the Piper Comanche 400? Mine will carry 780 pounds of fuel, and 720 pound of people, fly it off grass, shorter take off, faster climb and faster cruise than any NA Mooney all while carrying a real load. Reduce the power and fly 1000 NM. Half the money of a long body Mooney, one third the money of a Cirrus. Clarence Quote
chrisk Posted January 18, 2015 Report Posted January 18, 2015 Kelly, Might I introduce you to the Piper Comanche 400? Mine will carry 780 pounds of fuel, and 720 pound of people, fly it off grass, shorter take off, faster climb and faster cruise than any NA Mooney all while carrying a real load. Reduce the power and fly 1000 NM. Half the money of a long body Mooney, one third the money of a Cirrus. Clarence What does an engine over haul cost on a Comanche 400? I'm under the impression they are expensive. But the same can be said for a Bravo Quote
MB65E Posted January 18, 2015 Report Posted January 18, 2015 Welcome! Turbo Seneca? Turbo toga? A B36TC would be sweet! Sounds like anything less than a 414 would be suitable. The late model 340's were great too. Might be a good compromise, you'd be burning a bit less with the 340. I just got back from airlining to Chicago with the family ( 4 of us). Let's just say the Christmas presents alone would not have fit in the M20E. More like a Cessna Caravan. However a light M20M is a traveling machine! -Matt Quote
Kelly Householder Posted January 18, 2015 Author Report Posted January 18, 2015 haha thanks Matt.. Problem with the 340 is same costs.. Has same engines, same fuel burn, it a bit faster than the 414 but all the systems and complexity are identical. Same with 421's. I have never even thought about a Comanche 400. They have a huge honking engine right and are non-turbo arent they. Also seems they are a pretty old airplane to sink any money of any type into.. But I will indeed take a gander. Yeah G5 way way to much acquisition. I'd like to be under the 200K mark and prefer to be in teh 130K ranges Quote
rainman Posted January 18, 2015 Report Posted January 18, 2015 Before I bought my 231, I read Richard Zephro's e-book called (I think) "Those Mooney Airplanes". He has past away, but his Mooneyland website is being kept going by a friend, and I think the e-book is available there. I found it very useful....what about a Cessna 210 for your requirements ? Quote
dlthig Posted January 18, 2015 Report Posted January 18, 2015 Kelly, Good luck with whatever you decide. I've lucked into flying someone else's T-Saratoga. It's a great airplane with wonderful avionics, but doesn't carry much over 1K, it has A/C. The Lance and earlier Saratogas are better at hauling than the later ones. I've also got some time in a Comanche B. That would be a great airplane and will fit your range and load requirement. If you have an imagination, you can call it 6 seats. If you go that route, watch out for the tail AD and try to get one that was maintained by Bill Turlow in Bartow, FL. I think a C-210 would be just about the perfect airplane for flying a family of 4 with good speed and payload. For me, every time I look at the calculator, I just don't fly GA enough to justify owning a airplane. Perhaps when I give up the C-17, I'll have more time. Quote
carusoam Posted January 18, 2015 Report Posted January 18, 2015 Thiggy, How many people fit in a C-17? FF? T/O distance? Light weight in case the kids aren't coming along. That would be the family hauler of choice! Best regards, -a- Quote
Guest Posted January 18, 2015 Report Posted January 18, 2015 What does an engine over haul cost on a Comanche 400? I'm under the impression they are expensive. But the same can be said for a Bravo Overhaul cost is the same as two Lycoming IO360's, which in reality is what it is. Last I looked similar to a Bravo engine which is equally expensive. Clarence Quote
Guest Posted January 18, 2015 Report Posted January 18, 2015 haha thanks Matt.. Problem with the 340 is same costs.. Has same engines, same fuel burn, it a bit faster than the 414 but all the systems and complexity are identical. Same with 421's. I have never even thought about a Comanche 400. They have a huge honking engine right and are non-turbo arent they. Also seems they are a pretty old airplane to sink any money of any type into.. But I will indeed take a gander. Yeah G5 way way to much acquisition. I'd like to be under the 200K mark and prefer to be in teh 130K ranges Yes the engine is large, but at 75% power it still makes more power than the Bravo or Ovation at 100% power. Mine will true better than 190KTAS above 8000 on 18-20gph Quote
Parker_Woodruff Posted January 18, 2015 Report Posted January 18, 2015 If you want to carry 575 pounds of pax and 4 hours (or more) of fuel, you'll need an M20K 252 that has been converted to an Encore of an early M20M Bravo. Otherwise, you won't get the useful load you need. Most people who have $16K first annuals didn't get a good pre-purchase inspection done. The Mooney I used to own is for sale. It would be the perfect candidate. http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=1354063&LP=CONTROLLER Quote
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