IFR check list for Garmin 430/530 approaches

[midlifeflyer]

1. Listen to AWOS/ATIS so you know what approach and IAF to brief and which IAF to choose

2a. Brief the approach (Jepp and FAA were nice enough to give us a briefing strip to help)

2b, Set/loan and confirm navaids/GPS fixes in the process at the same time 

3. Confirm proper navaid/GPS indications as you fly.

 

Looking at some of the lists, I think I'd be at some airport 30 miles from my destination just reading it.

[Ragsf15e]

Yep, some of our students wish they were on the ground doing these checks instead of 200+kts!!

 

If you memorize them and practice something that works for you, you can do it pretty quick.  Especially if "George" is flying the airplane for you while you do them (autopilot).

[midlifeflyer]

If that was a response to my comment, I meant 30 miles past my destination.

 

I think we get too focused on trying to incorporate everything we can into checklists, making them unmanageable and ultimately unusable.

[Blackhawk]

If that was a response to my comment, I meant 30 miles past my destination.

 

I think we get too focused on trying to incorporate everything we can into checklists, making them unmanageable and ultimately unusable.

 

What he wrote. Too many checklists. Read the briefing strip and it incorporates just about everything that has been mentioned. This is an approach brief, not "War and Peace".

[RobertGary1]

Robert, can you give an example (or more details) of the risk of this?

Yves

 

Consider you have a plan for KABC -> VORFOO->KXYZ. Further consider that the approach for KXYZ has an IAP of VORFOO which requires a PT. So when ATC vectors you out of KABC and then says "direct VORFOO cleared for the approach" you may select the wrong VORFOO as it will be in your flight plan twice, once enroute and once on the approach. So after hitting the VOR you'd turn inbound to the airport instead of the opposite direction for the PT. Generally less than 10% of experienced IFR GPS pilots can successfully fix an incorrect sequence while on an approach (most require leaving the approach and reloading the entire thing). So if you instead activate the approach with VORFOO as the IAP you cannot have this problem.

 

 

-Robert

[Robert C.]

What he wrote. Too many checklists. Read the briefing strip and it incorporates just about everything that has been mentioned. This is an approach brief, not "War and Peace".

 

+1

 

Also, I'm intrigued by how different all the lists and mnemonics are that are on offer. Reminds me of my initial instructor who taught me to use a logical flow across the panel for both the pre-flight and for emergencies, and then to pull out the check list and to "check" that i hadn't forgotten something important.

 

R.

[Robert C.]

1. Listen to AWOS/ATIS so you know what approach and IAF to brief and which IAF to choose

2a. Brief the approach (Jepp and FAA were nice enough to give us a briefing strip to help)

2b, Set/loan and confirm navaids/GPS fixes in the process at the same time 

3. Confirm proper navaid/GPS indications as you fly.

 

Looking at some of the lists, I think I'd be at some airport 30 miles from my destination just reading it.

 

You sound like my IR instructor

 

ATIS - listen

Altimeter - Set

Approach Brief

Avionics - Set

Airspeed (we're flying Mooneys after all )

 

R.

[Blackhawk]

You sound like my IR instructor

 

ATIS - listen

Altimeter - Set

Approach Brief

Avionics - Set

Airspeed (we're flying Mooneys after all )

 

R.

Or, box (GPS unit), brief.

 

Everything you have listed is on the briefing strip of the approach plate.

As a random example, the ILS 23 KTRI.

 

http://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/1501/00426il23.pdf 

 

Start out with the box. Load this approach into the GPS and, if necessary tune frequencies. Confirm the waypoints with the approach chart to make sure it is the correct approach.

Then brief it to yourself off the approach plate:

"This is the ILS 23 at Bristol, amendment 24F, 3 April 2014. Frequency is 109.9. Final approach course is 230. Weather is ______. We have the weather for this approach. We're talking to approach, tower is in the back side. Ground is in number two radio. Glide slope intercept is the final approach fix, going down to a DA of 1718 with a touchdown zone elevation of 1518. Missed approach climb straight ahead to 3800' and the Booie OM and hold. I'll plan on a tear drop entry. Notes- we need radar or an NDB. We are substituting the GPS for the NDB."

[midlifeflyer]

You sound like my IR instructor

 

ATIS - listen

Altimeter - Set

Approach Brief

Avionics - Set

Airspeed (we're flying Mooneys after all )

 

R.

Maybe. But I wouldn't use a mnemonic for it   

[M20S Driver]

Thank you all for your postings.  I use a check list since I don't fly instruments frequent enough but I agree that a long list in flight is not helpful.  Here is what I started using on the Garmin in the last few approaches:

 

GNS 430/530 ILS/NP Approach Checklist

 

Cruise/Pre-approach

• ATIS

• ALTIMETER

• Load Approach (“PROC”)

• Select Transition

• Radio/Navaids -- set

• Minimums -- FAF / MDA / VDP / MAP

• Missed approach instructions

 

Approach

 

• Activate Approach (Vectors to Final?)

• Load the ILS/VOR frequency (VLOC flip-flop)—or confirm

• Press “CDI” to select “VLOC” --- or confirm

• ILS--MARKER BEACON: ON          TEST....Lo-SENSE.....SP

• OBS: INBOUND COURSE

• TOWER FREQ: SET

• NP-- TIMING............  FAF / MDA / VDP / MAP

• ILS-- OM CROSSING ALTITUDE (Barometric and GPS)

• Ground speed check

• DECISION HEIGHT (Verbalize)

• GUMP FET or MISSED APPROACH (OBS)

[midlifeflyer]

Thank you all for your postings.  I use a check list since I don't fly instruments frequent enough but I agree that a long list in flight is not helpful.  Here is what I started using on the Garmin in the last few approaches:

 

GNS 430/530 ILS/NP Approach Checklist

 

Cruise/Pre-approach

• ATIS

• ALTIMETER

• Load Approach (“PROC”)

• Select Transition

• Radio/Navaids -- set

• Minimums -- FAF / MDA / VDP / MAP

• Missed approach instructions

 

Approach

 

• Activate Approach (Vectors to Final?)

• Load the ILS/VOR frequency (VLOC flip-flop)—or confirm

• Press “CDI” to select “VLOC” --- or confirm

• ILS--MARKER BEACON: ON          TEST....Lo-SENSE.....SP

• OBS: INBOUND COURSE

• TOWER FREQ: SET

• NP-- TIMING............  FAF / MDA / VDP / MAP

• ILS-- OM CROSSING ALTITUDE (Barometric and GPS)

• Ground speed check

• DECISION HEIGHT (Verbalize)

• GUMP FET or MISSED APPROACH (OBS)

 

Just an observation based on my own experience in not flying much IFR. Before moving to North Carolina 2 years ago I lived for 20 years in Colorado and very rarely flew IFR. So I definitely needed to find a way to get back into it. And my comment definitely reflects my feelings about checklists and mnemonics.

 

What I think you want to watch out for is that your checklist is not serving duty as a mini instruction manual. That's not a problem with your checklist  items; inclusion of "how to fly" information that should be unnecessary is a problem IMO with many checklists. "Throttle - - - Advance" for takeoff is a good basic example.

 

Just as I can't see the need for that in a checklist (unless there is some specific setting that's required other than full or an initial fuel flow target), I also literally can't imagine flying IFR to an airport without checking the ATIS/AWOS (even VFR) in order to select and load an approach and the transition to it and, of course, while doing so, briefing it and ensuring all the appropriate navaids are set. 

 

Since I just recently went through it myself and you are talking about not flying IFR enough, consider asking yourself is if your checklist is replacing either instruction or practice (including virtual practice on procedures). They say the cockpit is a bad classroom. I'd add a checklist is a horrible instructor.

[rbp]

One item I always verify when on final is that my GPS ground speed is less than the indicated air speed. This confirms that I am landing into the wind. I also cross check corrected baro altitude with GPS altitude. Both should read the same when close to the ground.

 

José

 

don't you mean "less than the **true** airspeed"? or do you always land at sea level at 15C?

[rbp]

Non-Precision approaches have no vertical guidance. It is important that you know the Minimum Descent Altitude (MDA) and the airport elevation. On the 530W you can overlay the terrain on the approach map when the terrain page is selected.

 

José

 

LNAV/VNAV and LPV non-precision approaches have vertical guidance

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ato/service_units/techops/navservices/gnss/library/factsheets/media/RNAV_QFSheet.pdf

[midlifeflyer]

don't you mean "less than the **true** airspeed"? or do you always land at sea level at 15C?

Not that many people calculate true airspeed in flight. Even with the 2% increase in TAS for a given IAS with density altitude, that difference is usually going to be minimal compared with a significant discrepancy between uncorrected IAS and GS.

[rbp]

this is a typical summer day in Denver, a 12% increase in TAS over IAS. Unless there's a 10kt+ headwind component, the GS will be higher than IAS

 

(weather for Denver August 2014: http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KDEN/2014/8/1/MonthlyHistory.html)

[carusoam]

RBP,

1) Actual ground speed at higher density altitudes....

2) Actual ground speed when accidently landing with the wind...

I think it may be a different issue than what Piloto is pointing out.

Both are good to be aware of.

[rbp]

"piloto" wrote "One item I always verify when on final is that my GPS ground speed is less than the indicated air speed."

 

on a typical summer day in Denver, with anything up to a 9kt headwind, the groundspeed read off of the GPS will always be GREATER than the indicated airspeed, so the check described by piloto doesn't give you enough information about whether you have a tailwind or not. 

[carusoam]

I definitely see your point... (Clearer now)

Even more to know about high DA operations.

Waiting to see if Piloto comes back with more details on his list...

Thank you and best regards,

-a-

[Piloto]

"piloto" wrote "One item I always verify when on final is that my GPS ground speed is less than the indicated air speed."

 

on a typical summer day in Denver, with anything up to a 9kt headwind, the groundspeed read off of the GPS will always be GREATER than the indicated airspeed, so the check described by piloto doesn't give you enough information about whether you have a tailwind or not.

At high density altitudes that happens. However on my ASI the TAS scale does not show below 120kts indicated so is more practical for me to use the indicated speed. Most of my landings are below 1000ft. But if you have TAS indication below 80Kts like on the Aspen use then TAS for better accuracy.

[carusoam]

Thanks for the updated detail José.

Best regards,

-a-

[M20S Driver]

on a typical summer day in Denver, with anything up to a 9kt headwind, the groundspeed read off of the GPS will always be GREATER than the indicated airspeed, so the check described by piloto doesn't give you enough information about whether you have a tailwind or not.At high density altitudes that happens. However on my ASI the TAS scale does not show below 120kts indicated so is more practical for me to use the indicated speed. Most of my landings are below 1000ft. But if you have TAS indication below 80Kts like on the Aspen use then TAS for better accuracy.

I use the GPS ground speed for my Rate of decent calculation as well as a high level check on the winds as Jose mentioned above. Most of my landings are at sea level and all of high altittude ones are VFR.

[midlifeflyer]

You know, I actually never thought of it, despite taking of an landing in Colorado for 20 years. I don't think I have ever looked at my groundspeed on a final approach to landing. On an instrument approach, definitely since that's a descent rate/staying on glidepath issue. But not for the landing.

[Piloto]

One scenario I have encountered several times is landing on short runways (less than 2000ft) with no wind socks (or just the ring) and no nearby smoke or ATIS. Common in the Bahamas out islands and Latin America (a short road). I approach my best guess runway from about 3nm and 1000ft AGL and check for airspeed and ground speed. If the ground speed is higher than the IAS or TAS I side step to an extended downwind and check speeds again after turning on final on the opposite end. Landing on a short runway with a tail wind can cause to over run or blow a tire.

On take off I look at my wife's hair or feel the wind on my face or check the birds on the power line. Birds can not land on a power line on a tail wind.

José

[rbp]

TIL: checking GS versus IAS at/near sealevel to establish windspeed can be very helpful. at sealevel and ISA +30F temps, TAS is only a few percent above IAS.