Another Chute Save

[kerry]

Just read on yahoo about a helicopter colliding  with a SR22 today.  Pictures look like the SR22 deployed its chute.  Not sure who survived it but if it's the passengers in the cirrus it seems like the chute came in handy.  

[Alan Fox]

The Cirrus passengers survived , The three in the helo died....

[bnicolette]

The Cirrus passengers survived , The three in the helo died....

 

The two men on the plane were taken by ambulance to Meritus Medical Center in Hagerstown, but were being discharged, hospital spokeswoman Joelle Butler said in an email about three hours after the collision.

 

The three people who died were in the area of the helicopter wreckage, but it was not immediately clear whether all were on the helicopter, or if someone on the ground was killed, Shipley said.

 

The ATC tapes are very traumatic to listen to.  Starts about 6:30 into the tape.  One controller apparently working ground, Tower and Clnc Del.:

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kfdk/KFDK-Oct-23-2014-1930Z.mp3

 

Very very sad!!!!  

[Piloto]

And a well-trained pilot wouldn't have run out of gas to begin with. Pick another story

 

Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airline_flights_that_required_gliding is a list of some well-trained ATPs that ran out of gas.

 

Sudden icing can substantially reduce your range

Weather deviations 

Unforecasted Headwinds

Fuel gauge malfunction

Incorrect fuel load Kg vs. Lbs

Fuel leak 

Unexpected ATC holding due to weather or traffic

 

José

[aviatoreb]

Wow - tonight my wife says to me, did I hear there was a mid air in Frederick?  On her own, She heard it on the news and it scared her because we go to Frederick several times a year to visit family in DC.  I used to avoid KFDK before the tower because it was too cowboy and busy for me.

 

Then my wife asked me if I know that there is an airplane with a parachute and that maybe we should get a parachute.  Ummmm..... She meant for the Mooney so I explained it would require to buy a new airplane.  So then she seemed to want me to get the Cirrus.  Ummm.....  I tried explaining to her that Cirrus are nice but not safer, that the higher insurance rates reflect that.  But ummm.... give me some fodder boys, I like my Mooney.

 

When is the part 23 rewrite coming again?  Can I get a parachute then.

[carusoam]

This is in the center of GA country. It may get lots of airplay.

We may have to think what to say when the finance administrator asks (as Erik has pointed out)?

Prayers for the lost aviators,

-a-

[aviatoreb]

The two men on the plane were taken by ambulance to Meritus Medical Center in Hagerstown, but were being discharged, hospital spokeswoman Joelle Butler said in an email about three hours after the collision.

 

The three people who died were in the area of the helicopter wreckage, but it was not immediately clear whether all were on the helicopter, or if someone on the ground was killed, Shipley said.

 

The ATC tapes are very traumatic to listen to.  Starts about 6:30 into the tape.  One controller apparently working ground, Tower and Clnc Del.:

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kfdk/KFDK-Oct-23-2014-1930Z.mp3

 

Very very sad!!!!  

 

That is a horrific tape.

[jetdriven]

 Number one killer of helicopter pilots: wires. If you ever think you will glide and land on a road, look carefully. All roads have wires.

 

 a lot of pilots think that roads are the best and first choice for an emergency landing.  I take your opinion. All roads have wires.

[jetdriven]

Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airline_flights_that_required_gliding is a list of some well-trained ATPs that ran out of gas.

 

Sudden icing can substantially reduce your range

Weather deviations 

Unforecasted Headwinds

Fuel gauge malfunction

Incorrect fuel load Kg vs. Lbs

Fuel leak 

Unexpected ATC holding due to weather or traffic

 

José

Yes, Jose, you go back 61 years and find 25 incidents.    5 of which involved flight crews running out of gas. You're quite the conspiracy theorist.  Have you got anything else but extremist theories?

[bnicolette]

Yes, Jose, you go back 61 years and find 25 incidents. 5 of which involved flight crews running out of gas. You're quite the conspiracy theorist. Have you got anything else but extremist theories?

He sure does, he's got the coolest pair of aviator sunglasses I have ever seen.

[Marauder]

http://www.bing.com/videos/browse?mkt=en-us&vid=18ae5f24-2dd3-4241-83ee-5f617146834f&from=sharepermalink-email

[bnicolette]

http://www.bing.com/videos/browse?mkt=en-us&vid=18ae5f24-2dd3-4241-83ee-5f617146834f&from=sharepermalink-email

Thanks Chris.

Will they actually be doing training exercises in the helicopter with three people in it?

[PMcClure]

Wow - tonight my wife says to me, did I hear there was a mid air in Frederick?  On her own, She heard it on the news and it scared her because we go to Frederick several times a year to visit family in DC.  I used to avoid KFDK before the tower because it was too cowboy and busy for me.

 

Then my wife asked me if I know that there is an airplane with a parachute and that maybe we should get a parachute.  Ummmm..... She meant for the Mooney so I explained it would require to buy a new airplane.  So then she seemed to want me to get the Cirrus.  Ummm.....  I tried explaining to her that Cirrus are nice but not safer, that the higher insurance rates reflect that.  But ummm.... give me some fodder boys, I like my Mooney.

 

When is the part 23 rewrite coming again?  Can I get a parachute then.

Hang it up and get a plastic plane with a chute. 

[Marauder]

Thanks Chris.

Will they actually be doing training exercises in the helicopter with three people in it?

If it was an R22 and not an R44, it was a 2 seater.

[bnicolette]

If it was an R22 and not an R44, it was a 2 seater.

 

Well they said it was an R44 but I can't imagine why they might be doing training exercises with a rear seat pax?  Maybe it was a flight school though?

 

Sad day and that ATC tape is just horrific.  I wish I wouldn't have heard it or posted it.

[Marauder]

Well they said it was an R44 but I can't imagine why they might be doing training exercises with a rear seat pax? Maybe it was a flight school though?

Sad day and that ATC tape is just horrific. I wish I wouldn't have heard it or posted it.

Yeah, it was tough to listen to but also something that is a reminder that what we do is dangerous and that we need to keep our guard up.

[Piloto]

Yes, Jose, you go back 61 years and find 25 incidents.    5 of which involved flight crews running out of gas. You're quite the conspiracy theorist.  Have you got anything else but extremist theories?

 

Yes, Jose, you go back 61 years and find 25 incidents.    5 of which involved flight crews running out of gas. You're quite the conspiracy theorist.  Have you got anything else but extremist theories?

 

Yeah! MH370 B777 ran out of gas and went into the ocean, same as Amelia Earhart. "Accidents are not predictable".

 

José

[jetdriven]

sure, and running out of gas wasnt causal to MH370 nor the majority of the other incidents you posted. Professional pilots never rely on gadgets or automation to save them from a degrading situation. Something many private pilots will never understand.

 

the parachute is nice but midair collisions don't even rank on accident causal factors.

[Piloto]

sure, and running out of gas wasnt causal to MH370 nor the majority of the other incidents you posted. Professional pilots never rely on gadgets or automation to save them from a degrading situation. Something many private pilots will never understand.

 

the parachute is nice but midair collisions don't even rank on accident causal factors.

 

Relying on a gadget like a tablet/ADSB or a smartphone for weather and traffic is better than nothing.

There must be some rank level on mid-air events for the FAA to mandate TCAS on air transport planes.

You do not need to be a professional pilot to realize a degrading situation.

 

José 

[Alan Fox]

It really bothers me that people are so short sighted to say the Mooney is safer than the Cirrus , Its not.....Say facts , Like "I like the Mooney more than the Cirrus"    Or "I think I'm so great a pilot that I will never need a chute "   or BIG FACT HERE    The people in the Cirrus are alive because of the chute..........  As far as chutes in helos ... They could mount one over the rotor like the "longbow radar" on the attack helos.....

[aviatoreb]

Hang it up and get a plastic plane with a chute. 

 

Booo.

[aviatoreb]

It really bothers me that people are so short sighted to say the Mooney is safer than the Cirrus , Its not.....Say facts , Like "I like the Mooney more than the Cirrus"    Or "I think I'm so great a pilot that I will never need a chute "   or BIG FACT HERE    The people in the Cirrus are alive because of the chute..........  As far as chutes in helos ... They could mount one over the rotor like the "longbow radar" on the attack helos.....

 

I'm not sure why it bothers you?  You are right, I do prefer the Mooney for many cool factor fun to fly reasons, but:

 

Fact, the Cirrus does not have safer safety statistics across the fleet than the Mooney.  Fact, Cirrus costs more to insure than a Mooney, and that is the insurance industry's assessment of likelihood of an incident.  But why?  Is it the pilots or the parachutes.  Which came first, the chicken or the egg?  Do a certain kind of pilot buy that plane and never train the same, or maybe behave so as to make choices that despite a safer plane with a chute and all, they manage to not be safer as was the hope - so less safe pilot plus more safe plane equal about the same as everyone else?  Who knows.  Certainly yesterday in Frederick a chute was a good thing to have and I would be feeling very thankful if I were those two occupants having had the chute.  And that incident is clearly not the stereotypical result of choices on the pilots' part.

 

Statistically midairs are exceedingly rare.  Even more so in a towered airport.  Still gives me the shivers and that tape is sure a wake up slap in the face.  Just last month I forked out for the ADSB out transponder so I might have a full traffic picture and aural warnings.  Midairs are definitely on my mind.

[Alan Fox]

Statistically EVERYBODY DIES in a midair collision.....

[bnicolette]

I'm not sure why it bothers you?  You are right, I do prefer the Mooney for many cool factor fun to fly reasons, but:

 

Fact, the Cirrus does not have safer safety statistics across the fleet than the Mooney.  Fact, Cirrus costs more to insure than a Mooney, and that is the insurance industry's assessment of likelihood of an incident.  But why?  Is it the pilots or the parachutes.  Which came first, the chicken or the egg?  Do a certain kind of pilot buy that plane and never train the same, or maybe behave so as to make choices that despite a safer plane with a chute and all, they manage to not be safer as was the hope - so less safe pilot plus more safe plane equal about the same as everyone else?  Who knows.  Certainly yesterday in Frederick a chute was a good thing to have and I would be feeling very thankful if I were those two occupants having had the chute.  And that incident is clearly not the stereotypical result of choices on the pilots' part.

 

Statistically midairs are exceedingly rare.  Even more so in a towered airport.  Still gives me the shivers and that tape is sure a wake up slap in the face.  Just last month I forked out for the ADSB out transponder so I might have a full traffic picture and aural warnings.  Midairs are definitely on my mind.

 

Erik I think that you'll find that these facts and statistics will be switching course.  And in fact they are.  The pilots mindset and training in the beginning of the CAPS evolution was very different than it is now.  Now pilots of the Cirrus airplane are programmed to pull that sucker "now".  Here is a great article explaining much better than I ever could.  However, for the statistical side of it we will have to wait but my money is on the Cirrus proving to have a much better safety record (as far as fatalities) in an emergency situation.

 

http://macsblog.com/2014/09/cirrus-fully-embraces-the-chute/

[bonal]

I'm not sure but I think you will find statistcally on an injury vs accident ratio a cessna 150 is the safest plane to fly. the lower the stall speed the softer the impact. I'm shure there will be a plethera of disagreement on the subject. it would be great to have a chute but I dont so what curl up in a little ball and stay on the couch. No Way!