Mooney Down- botched go around

[carusoam]

Tom,

That is a chilling detailed description of the situation.

Thanks for sharing it.

Best regards,

-a-

[Houman]

Just as a thought, I do have a Autopilot Go around button ( AP GA ), I have never used it on an actual miss approach or bounce touch and go since I do it by hand, but I have tried it in altitude and it seems to configure appropriately the trimm and pitch up the airplane..

Has anyone tried that on an actual touch and go or missed approach ?

[carusoam]

I think I have seen a similar button labeled with GA for go around. It was to tell the GPS to sequence the missed approach?

I would read the manual on what to expect for that...

Having one button automatically do anything for us while we are near the ground seems highly unlikely.

Most flight instructors will wince if you demonstrate setting the AP to control the climb out at 100' AGL.

My KAP 150 could do this technically on a standard day with no gusty wind, etc. it only takes a couple of seconds to derive the necessary angle and a few seconds more to achieve the climb angle...

I don't think anyone would allow it to be the standard procedure. The ground is too close and too hard.

See what I mean?

I believe Cirrus has a special button in their instrument panel to achieve level flight in the event of an upset. An impressive feat for light computer technology. But not nearly as cool as pushing a go around button?

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

The GA button will do different things depending on the plane. On the newer Cirrus planes with the Garmin 1000, it will keep the autopilot connected and give a 7.5 degree climb on the flight director and cycle your missed waypoint on the GPS. On older planes, it will provide somewhere near a 7 degree climb command on the flight director and disconnect the autopilot while sequencing to the missed waypoint. If there is a turn, the command bars will reflect this. It won't do anything with your flaps or power settings but I believe the big iron guys will tell you it does a lot more on those planes.

[Awqward]

I imagine Cruiser's description of a botched TnG will be very close to thecATSB wording when the report comes our

[ArtVandelay]

Cruiser makes a good point, I will add that you are trying to trim and control the wheel with one hand, setting the flaps with the other, for someone who lacks some upper body strength I can easily see how things could quickly go wrong even if they do everything correctly. This is on a J, I assume the more powerful models are worst?!

[John Pleisse]

This kind of misinformation really concerns me.  This pilot was practicing a go-around for her Australian Commercial ticket. . Do touch and goes all day if you wish, nothing says you can't. There are no POH procedures for touch and goes issued by Mooney. There IS a Go Around procedure in Mooney POH's. Here are the drawbacks of touch and goes:

 

1) One more take off without checklist

2) More likely to have a gear up

3) More likely to have to do a go around

4) More likely to confuse whatever touch and go procedure you have developed for a critical go around

 

Go Arounds are for:

1) Runway incursions

2) Revised tower instructions

3) Sudden reduced visibility

4) Anything unsafe on the ground-deer, etc

5) Practicing off airport, bulked landings

 

Just like most trainers, the Mooney wing has a near equal drag:lift coefficient at 20 degrees flaps. Thus, two totally different procedures.

 

Go Around:

 

1) Apply full power

2) Apply 10-20lbs forward yoke pressure, trim

4) Check airpseed- 65 KIAS or higher

5) Retract flaps to half

6) Positive rate, gear up

7) Maintain controlled climb, cowl flaps open

8) Retract final 20 degrees of flaps

 

Touch and Goes:

 

1) GUMP

2) Half flaps

3) Airspeed 65 KIAS touch down

4) Apply full power

5) Trim as needed

6) Positive rate, gear up

7) 500 ft, retract flaps

 

One, is a specific procedure found in your POH, that is requisite knowledge for a PPL. The other is an ad hoc method of saving time and fuel. Confuse the latter with the former in the air (not on Mooneyspace) and you'll get bit.

[Ned Gravel]

I am going to go against the apparent collective wisdom here, but for a number of reasons.

 

First I fly an E with the manual gear, flaps, and trim.  Second, I have a neighbouring airfield (CYND-Gatineau is Yves' home drome) that is 3 minutes from my home drome and it has 6000' of 150' wide runway.  Third, I have practiced the process until it is part of my own muscle memory.  

 

If I am landing with full flaps (and the decision to do so is made well before arrival at the IAF or into the circuit) then I will need 3 seconds after touchdown to retract to T/O flaps and three downstrokes on the trim wheel to take out the trim dialled in for all those flaps.  6 seconds after firmly being on the runway, and I am reconfigured for T/O.  This 6 seconds of runway time at 55 mph  (corrected from Hank's input below) is about 500 feet of runway (give or take).  I use 200 feet less (2 seconds less including one less downstroke on the trim wheel) for three pumps of flaps (30 degrees) and I use nothing at all if the aircraft is already trimmed for the approach using T/O flaps.  

 

When doing instrument approaches, the default is ALWAYS with T/O flaps unless I break out of the clag real early to do an almost entirely visual approach.  Note that we do not do touch-and-goes when we are training for Mooney Caravan procedures even though we do not use flaps for those evolutions.

 

I like doing touch-and-goes in my Mooney at Gatineau.  I have a runway long enough to remove the problem of trimming for TOGA in visual approaches and the aircraft is already set for TOGA in instrument approaches.

 

Flame suit on.  Fire away.

[Hank]

Sounds good to me, Ned. My C is electric, and I think our times are very similar, except I'm generally rolling along closer to 50 mph while reconfiguring.

[Stefanovm]

Why not practice touch and goes in a Mooney? I did when I started my transition training but instead of doing them at the 4000 ft airpark we did them at St Pete's long 9000 foot runway.

My practice also. Develop the correct reactions in a safer environment if using a real airplane. In the pinch of the real need those trained reactions will pay off.

[DS1980]

 

Flame suit on.  Fire away.

Remove fire suit. Excellent description of a technique that works for you. Exactly what I was taught my first trips up with a Mooney specific CFI. Just think, you are more competent than the most competent Mooney instructors that don't recommend T&Gs.

A Mooney needs runway to reconfigure for TO after landing.

[Bartman]

I say there is not a poster on this board who did not do touch and go's during primary training.

I say there is not a poster on this board who has not done go arounds in primary, instrument, or more advanced training.

I say most if not all of the posters on this board did touch and go's in their mooney during transition training.

These are skills we all learned and should not be forgotten.

Let's talk about something we all agree with... Low wing is better than high wing.

[1964-M20E]

I’ve done touch and go’s on a 3000’ runway.  Longer runways are better they give you more options.  Some believe that touch and go’s are bad in a complex aircraft and should not be done and others will do them.  It is a personal opinion and decision.  However, at the end of the day we all need to be proficient and able to make the decision of when and where to do go around.

 

I had the requirement to do a go around after touch down.  It was dark, 1000’ OVC and 10mi, grass strip, very wet and poorly lit.  I shot the approach into the nearby towered airport (about 3mi away) and circled to land which is standard procedure. I landed long and fast.  I quickly realized the end of the runway and the power lines were fast approaching and I knew I could not stop before them.  I applied full power and lifted the plane off the runway and over the lines.  This was probably in in the last 1500 to 2000 ft. of the runway.  Did this get my attention?  Yes it did and many things were running through my mind during the go around.  On the downwind I tried to clear my mind and concentrate on the next landing.  The next approach was successful with a very relieved pilot.

[John Pleisse]

The title of the thread is "botched go around" and we are examining an accident. It would be prudent to learn from it correctly, that's all.  A touch and go provides you options on the ground, while a go-around provides you no options in the air. Stroke that trim wheel and do touch and goes until you are blue in the face, but just don't confuse the two. Go around accidents occur as a proficiency problem. When power is added and the nose lurches to the sky, a chain of events start. Flaps first for go-around. Gear first for T & G. Get 'em backwards and problems start. Apples and Oranges.

 

It can be somewhat noramalized by using only half flaps all of the time, as most everybody here does for IAP's.

[N601RX]

The news article originally said "Go Around", now it has updated to say "Touch and Go".

[RobertE]

Flaps first for go-around. Gear first for T & G. Get 'em backwards and problems start. Apples and Oranges.

 

What bad thing happens if gear is stowed before adjusting the flaps on a go around?  My routine during practice approaches is to trim out the pressure, then stow the gear, then adjust flaps.  If the last two should be reversed, how come?

 

Thanks.

[ArtVandelay]

What bad thing happens if gear is stowed before adjusting the flaps on a go around?  My routine during practice approaches is to trim out the pressure, then stow the gear, then adjust flaps.  If the last two should be reversed, how come?

 

Thanks.

For me its power, trim, flaps, trim, gear, flaps, trim

[John Pleisse]

What bad thing happens if gear is stowed before adjusting the flaps on a go around?  My routine during practice approaches is to trim out the pressure, then stow the gear, then adjust flaps.  If the last two should be reversed, how come?

 

Thanks.

Good question. Nothing. Mooney 201> POH > NOP > "GO AROUND"

[dcrogers11]

Lean of Peak......

 

Okay, I couldn't help it.  Seems we have found another subject that has considerable debate and differing opinions.

 

Don