Officially started IR traing today

[Hank]

If I need them to be more patient with me I will politely remind them that they are paid from my taxes too and they are here to keep us safe. Can I do that?

 

It may work better if you ask them "Say again, slower please". That will come across better than reminding them that your taxes pay their salary. Maybe use one of your other languages for "please" will help them understand your needs.

[yvesg]

My mother tongue is French. When I did the trip to California 2 months ago, controllers had trouble with the way I say "Mooney". I did end up at some point flying an experimental plane according to them... but do not recall which one.

Yves

[Deb]

Bob,

I found a few things helpful:

I was not in a particular hurry, so after I had a lesson, I would go out and practice what I had learned until I felt comfortable. Usually a couple of flights between lessons. Having a safety pilot who is instrument rated is also helpful. Also, I tried to avoid not flying for a while, because I'd not remember what I was learning.

If you go flying, consider filing IFR. You can put "Practice IFR Flight" in the comment box. (Do this when it's VFR). If there's a cloud in the way, you can ask for deviations. This way you can get used to what the controllers say, and what to expect. If you become uncomfortable, you can always cancel IFR.

If there's an opportunity and it works for you, you could be a safety pilot for someone. You'd get experience without stress.

Good luck!

[MooneyBob]

Bob,

I found a few things helpful:

I was not in a particular hurry, so after I had a lesson, I would go out and practice what I had learned until I felt comfortable. Usually a couple of flights between lessons. Having a safety pilot who is instrument rated is also helpful. Also, I tried to avoid not flying for a while, because I'd not remember what I was learning.

If you go flying, consider filing IFR. You can put "Practice IFR Flight" in the comment box. (Do this when it's VFR). If there's a cloud in the way, you can ask for deviations. This way you can get used to what the controllers say, and what to expect. If you become uncomfortable, you can always cancel IFR.

If there's an opportunity and it works for you, you could be a safety pilot for someone. You'd get experience without stress.

Good luck!

Deb,

These are really good ideas, specially one to file Practice IFR. I didn't know you can do that.

I have enough time on my hands and my work schedule is very flexible so I am ready to practice a lot.

Thanks

[MooneyCFII]

There is no such thing as filing "practice IFR". Unless you have an instrument rating or are flying with an instructor who is giving you instrument instruction, you cannot file IFR. Once you have your rating you may file IFR for every flight if you like.

 

But even VFR you can request services from ATC so you get used to doing the radio communications and following ATC's direction. Nothing prevents you from practicing your IFR procedures in VFR conditions without actually filing or flying IFR.

 

All of the other advice people have given you is good. 

 

I too use X-Plane as a procedures trainer. I use it as an initial procedures trainer for my primary and instrument students. The time is not loggable but the learning is still quite useful and shortens the amount of time you are burning gas in your airplane. Of course, you can find Basic Air Training Devices (BATDs) or Advance Air Training Devices (AATDs) that will allow you to log time toward your rating. If you are interested in that I would contact both RedBird or Precision Flight Controls to see their products. 

 

With regard to the ADF, the examiner may request you use any piece of equipment in the airplane. If you have a working ADF in the airplane the examiner might require you to demonstrate an NDB approach so you should be able to fly a passible NDB approach. You will have to demonstrate at least one precision and two non-precision approaches, one of which will be partial-panel. Nowadays the examiner is more likely to ask you do demonstrate a GPS approach rather than an NDB approach but it is perfectly within the letter and spirt of the check ride to request an NDB approach if you have a working ADF in the plane. 

 

And for all you old timers out there, how many of you have tracked an Adcock "A/N" range or shot a GCA (PAR) approach under actual IFR conditions? Fun, aren't they. While I don't know of any A/N ranges still on the air you can still get a practice PAR approach at your local military airfield if they aren't busy. It is definitely worth putting on the hood and trying it out. I know that if I am ever in a situation where the fecal material has intersected the rotating air circulation device -- and my day is getting worse -- you can bet I am going to declare an emergency and ask for a PAR at the nearest military facility. When one is burnin' and the other's not turnin', one of the nicest things you can hear is, "This is your final approach controller. Do not acknowledge any further transmissions..." ;-)

[MooneyBob]

I didn't read it that way? She said file a VFR FLIGHT PLAN and put "practice IFR" in the remarks. I think you are saying the same thing, except she is including remarks and filing a VFR flight plan. I have gone up on ATL Center here several times recently and asked for flight following, and explained to the controller that am conducting an equipment test flight -that I wanted to remain VFR, but track a certain Victor airway with the feeder to a certain approach to the published missed. After giving you a squawk (transponder) code they always preference or conclude their clearances with "Remain VFR."

The ground procedures trainer of simulators can be a cost effective way to supplement training flights - but may also bring some interference to learning or negative habit transfer ... if radios and dials are in different places and have different labels and functions ... and so on ...

IF there is still an ADF in your plane, yes, you should know how to use it ... but that wouldn't be my focus ... as they seem to be slowly going away? Don't think it would be the focus of an examiner either? Me personally: I LOVE ADF approaches, but the previous owner had already removed his from our Mooney.

Yes, all us military guys have done ASRs and PARs ... Not sure it is of any value to someone not in the vicinity of a military base? But yes ... nice to have seen one. To me, the scenario for a PAR would be limited to emergencies ... if in hard IFR and experiencing navigational equipment failure ... or perhaps experiencing "spacial disorientation" Otherwise, my preference would be the ILS ... if there's nowhere VFR. Just my preference.

In a Mooney we always have "one burning." That's all there is ....

She said " If you go flying, consider filing IFR " . That's why I got so excited. She probably meant VFR but it really doesn't matter. It is very good advice to get in touch with ATC and practice radio communication and IFR procedures in VMC. That's what I did today too. I pick controlled airport in class C or D as my destination and I ask for the flight following as soon as I am 1500' up. It gets pretty busy in the area where I fly ( NY class B, Philladelphia class so I got plenty of chat with the ATC guys. It's a good practice and confidence building excercise.

[MooneyCFII]

I didn't read it that way? She said file a VFR FLIGHT PLAN and put "practice IFR" in the remarks. I think you are saying the same thing, except she is including remarks and filing a VFR flight plan. I have gone up on ATL Center here several times recently and asked for flight following, and explained to the controller that am conducting an equipment test flight -that I wanted to remain VFR, but track a certain Victor airway with the feeder to a certain approach to the published missed. After giving you a squawk (transponder) code they always preference or conclude their clearances with "Remain VFR."

The ground procedures trainer of simulators can be a cost effective way to supplement training flights - but may also bring some interference to learning or negative habit transfer ... if radios and dials are in different places and have different labels and functions ... and so on ...

IF there is still an ADF in your plane, yes, you should know how to use it ... but that wouldn't be my focus ... as they seem to be slowly going away? Don't think it would be the focus of an examiner either? Me personally: I LOVE ADF approaches, but the previous owner had already removed his from our Mooney.

Yes, all us military guys have done ASRs and PARs ... Not sure it is of any value to someone not in the vicinity of a military base? But yes ... nice to have seen one. To me, the scenario for a PAR would be limited to emergencies ... if in hard IFR and experiencing navigational equipment failure ... or perhaps experiencing "spacial disorientation" Otherwise, my preference would be the ILS ... if there's nowhere VFR. Just my preference.

In a Mooney we always have "one burning." That's all there is ....

You are correct about differences between the sim and the plane potentially causing interference during the learning process. I try to ameliorate that by focusing on the things that don't really change, like primary instrument scan, cross-checking, and basic pitch/bank/power maneuvers. I also introduce approaches and try to limit the need to twiddle knobs in the sim. And many of the sims now offer different panel layouts which usually gets you pretty close to panel layout in the plane itself. I am working toward standardizing the panels in my planes and coming up with a matching sim in order to address that very issue.

 

I do a fair amount of flying outside the US. I find ADF to still be quite useful. I have had GPS "go away" on an over-water flight. (Both the panel mounted GPS and the hand-held stopped working at the same time. Yes, I was quite surprised, thank you.) Ded Reckoning works but it is nice to have some kind of nav-aid that still works. And sometimes ADF is all you are going to get. No, I don't focus on ADF but it is still nice to have.

 

Yes, if you have military background you have flown ASR and PAR. Most civil pilots aren't really aware of its availability should they need it. And you are right, there has to be a base nearby. In addition to military airfields, many of the larger airports in Canada are dual-use and have PAR. So, if there is a military airfield nearby and you want to try something new, ask ATC if a practice PAR is available and then go fly it if it is. It is an interesting experience.

[carusoam]

At the MAPA training, last fall, pilots were discussing the type of approaches they were planning or executed and where they had to go to get them.

Is there a way to look up particular approach types, without looking at each airport first, then going down the list?

In other words, how would we find the answer to 'where are the local ADF approaches?' Back of the AFD is now back of the iAFD?

In NJ, I used VOR, ILS, and GPS based approaches during training. Threw in a DME arc, cause we could.

Best regards,

-a-

[MooneyCFII]

To be honest, I don't know a good answer to your question. I ran into the same problem recently and had to look through the approach procedures for all the local airports to see which ones had approaches we could use. The situation came up because the HSI failed in my Mooney and I had to use my Cherokee which only has VOR/LOC/GS.

 

I wish I had a better answer for you. 

[gsxrpilot]

I did my IR in a Cherokee and Comanche and both had ADF's.  I got to be pretty good at NDB approaches.  The current M20C doesn't have an ADF and I don't think I'm gonna miss it.

 

Paul

[MooneyBob]

I just noticed that you are doing your training at KBLM.  If you are using Eagles View, please tell Priscilla and Esther that I said Hi.  They are nice people.

Glenn,

I said hi to Priscilla as I saw her few times this week. She said thanks.

[WardHolbrook]

The ground procedures trainer or simulators can be a cost effective way to supplement training flights - but may also bring some interference to learning or negative habit transfer ... if radios and dials are in different places and have different labels and functions ... and so on ...

 

Years ago I was was training in a 727 sim and I asked the sim instructor how good the sim was. His answer - "The sim is good, but the airplane is more realistic."  

[flyboy0681]

Years ago I was was training in a 727 sim and I asked the sim instructor how good the sim was. His answer - "The sim is good, but the airplane is more realistic."

 

In 1993 I treated myself to 1.5 hours in a 727 simulator (back when citizens could signup for it without having to first answer to the FBI). Since I had always been enamoured with the 727 and read a lot of books and manuals on it, I asked the instructor/operator to just place me at the foot of the runway so I could see how well I do without any instruction.All he gave me were power setting to set and airspeeds to follow. Out of a dozen takeoff and landings during the time, I botched one landing where I chopped the power and flared at what must have been 100 feet over the concrete. If it were a real plane the struts would have come come through the wing.

 

I would say that was one of the highlights of my flying career and watch the video every now and then.

[Awqward]

Passed my Instrument checkride yesterday! All the hard work paid off....very happy!

[Marauder]

Passed my Instrument checkride yesterday! All the hard work paid off....very happy!

Congrats! Now the real learning begins!

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[Awqward]

Thanks! One thing caught me on the oral: apparently you now need an IPC as soon as you go out of 6/6 currency....no longer 6 months grace in which to use a safety pilot....

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[Hank]

Thanks! One thing caught me on the oral: apparently you now need an IPC as soon as you go out of 6/6 currency....no longer 6 months grace in which to use a safety pilot....

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When did that change? There used to be a 12-month period after lapse of currency before an IPC was required! The winter was so bad my currency is lapsed now, so this is not an idle question. Mike E.???

[Marauder]

I hadn't heard this either and I just finished an IPC in February. The CFII asked me when I would be out of currency and how long I had to get back in. He was okay with the answer i gave him based on what I understood the regs to be.

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[Awqward]

61.57 has changed...my DPE says it is unambiguous....however the FAA Genersl Counsel apparently issued a letter clarifying saying nothing has changed...but my DPE said until the change 61.57 back the words are the words....

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[Awqward]

But I wasn't about to enter into an argument with the DPE just before my checkride....

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[flyboy0681]

News to me too, and I took my check ride last month. Prior to the oral I brushed up on the latest changes to regulations and didn't come across that one. The one change that stands out is the ability to shoot GPS (LNAV only) approaches at the alternate airport.

[MooneyCFII]

First off, congratulations on the new rating! Welcome to the ranks of us who are now more qualified to say, "Nope, not going to take off into that today." :-) Good job!

 

Now go find some real IMC to fly around in (no ice and no embedded CBs) just for fun. When I got my instrument rating (1977) it was winter in SoCal so I took the plane and flew several hops in IMC just to experience solo IFR in IMC. I think I put on about 4 hours of actual that day just for fun. It was a kick. 

 

As for your DE's comment about the changed FARs for currency, the current FARs are available on-line from the FAA. There is no need to guess or argue. The current FAR 61.57 (d) reads:

 

(d) Instrument Proficiency Check. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, a person who has failed to meet the instrument experience requirements of paragraph © for more than six calendar months may reestablish instrument currency only by completing an instrument proficiency check. ..."

 

So, if you are not instrument current, but are within the 6-month "grace period", you may regain instrument currency by flying:

• 6 approaches,
• holding procedures and tasks,
• interception and tracking courses through the use of navigational electronic systems.

You may also use an approved aviation training device to accomplish the above tasks plus:

• two unusual attitude recoveries while in a descending Vne airspeed condition,
• two unusual attitude recoveries while in an ascending, stall speed condition.

The FARs, AIM, and other really useful documents are available free-of-charge from the FAA. I download and store them on my iPad which I use for my charts (ForeFlight). iBooks is a good way to store PDFs downloaded from the FAA. Just remember to go back periodically and download any new versions.

 

BTW, I currently use the iPad app "PilotFAR.AIM". I paid for that ($7/year for updates) because it pushes FAR/AIM updates to my iPad instead of me having to go to the FAA web site to check. That way I know I have the current FAR/AIM with me at all times.

 

As for the DE, he/she was aware of a recent change/ambiguity in the regs and was pointing that out to you. Rarely will a DE "bust" you for a transient, "I don't know," especially if you pop out your regs and say, "Here, let me look that up," which I did on my recent CFII checkride. Remember, it is not about memorizing everything. It is about functioning effectively and using all the information available to you in a timely and effective manner. I don't think any DE expects a candidate to have memorized all the FARs in preparation for an oral, especially those that have suddenly changed. "I'm not sure but I can find that information right away," says you are competent and prepared, which was apparently the case. 

 

So, again, congratulations! Enjoy the new flexibility provided by your new rating. And remember: CBs and ice kill. Been there and done that in both situations but was lucky. One needs luck because one can never know everything about the conditions. Still, good decision making means you have to exercise your need for good luck less often. ;-)

[Awqward]

Thanks CFII.....you sound like my CFII! :-)

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[DonMuncy]

Welcome to the club. Use it as often as possible.

[MooneyCFII]

Thanks CFII.....you sound like my CFII! :-)

 

I guess it is an occupational hazard.