Interior Upholstery

[scottfromiowa]

I could use it

And do you have a picture of the hardware for the copilot eyeball vent, if I recall, it's a special piece unique to Mooneys.

It's yours Byron. PM me and I will send it your way.

[scottfromiowa]

 

 

 

Here are the vents...

[isaacpr7]

So I have started the recornstruction portion of the interiors by cutting all the cardboard panels and upholstering with faux leather. After I finish these I will begin the fiberglass reinforcement of all the plastic panels from the rear and glue faux leather to the front side of each panel. I am leaving the overhead panels for last so that I can continue to see what others have done before I decide on what to do for the weemac vent conversion.

 

During the fabrication of the lower right hand panel I noticed that there is a small hole (about 1") where there is some sort of device behind the whole. Does anyone know what this might be? I was thinking about not creating the hole when I cut the new cardboard panel because it does not make sense as to why there was a whole made for this. This whole is in the lower right side panel between the floor and the instrument panel.

[RangerJim]

On my 68C that hole you describe in the right side kick panel allows access to the main power circuit breaker button.  Check your owners manual, page 2-3 item 44, to make sure we are talking about the same thing.  You definitely want to retain speedy access to this CB.  I had to deal with this while installing Airtex side panels which I can recommend as a quality product. A garden variety Ace Hardware hole saw made a nice clean cut.  A placard on the right side sub panel identifies this CB.

 

Please continue to keep us posted on your progress.

[isaacpr7]

On my 68C that hole you describe in the right side kick panel allows access to the main power circuit breaker button.  Check your owners manual, page 2-3 item 44, to make sure we are talking about the same thing.  You definitely want to retain speedy access to this CB.  I had to deal with this while installing Airtex side panels which I can recommend as a quality product. A garden variety Ace Hardware hole saw made a nice clean cut.  A placard on the right side sub panel identifies this CB.

 

Please continue to keep us posted on your progress.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction Jim. You hit the nail in the head. This is exactly what this item is (main CB). Also, I will be drilling the whole as you suggested. I will be posting pics of the progress as I go so that maybe I could receive some suggestions from fellow mooniacs.

 

This is the CB without the panel installed:

[isaacpr7]

Here are some pictures of the progress. Hopefully I can get some input as I post more pictures.

 

[HRM]

Any idea on what kind of prices we're talking for new panels?

 

At one point I heard $2K, but that was some time ago.

[mike_elliott]

Bruce Yaeger has just been approved for his "Spatial Interior Panels" and is getting ready for installations. Browse here for contact info.

 

Bruce spent years completely redesigning the interior panels to make them yield more room in the cockpit, hence the name, as well as making them easy to remove; i.e., no more screws.

 

His test aircraft was an E and it is absolutely beautiful. He also has redesigned seats that give greater comfort and more room.

 

Worth checking in to before a major rework of the Royalite.

 

Here's a link (in Mooneyspace) with pictures of the installed panels.

 

Bruce is going to do mine right after HRM's. After seeing it in person and hearing what it costs, this just makes sense. My interior isn't in bad shape, but will be beautiful after this!

[isaacpr7]

Well guys, at this point I am becoming very impatient with the fiberglass work. This epoxy product is not working out like I thought it would. I did everything as instructed to mix the resin and four yards of expensive fabric later it still will not dry out properly so all the material was a waste. At this point I am considering another alternative. I will either save for the spacy interior or just buy the panels from plane pastics as needed.

[MB65E]

I've had good luck with laying up a 2-3 bid Carbon schedual with a layer of plastic on each side. Then take a roller to the resin to distribute it/ smooth it out. Finally, removing one side of the plastic,

laying the layup over blocked/contoured clay molding. The carbon is nice because it does not burn. It's the resin that will. Might try a thinner amount of resin.

-Matt

[isaacpr7]

Guys,

I know some of you are interested in the "Spatial Interiors" by Bruce, so I sent him an email requesting more information on this product and this is what he replied:

 

Isaac, in a brief explanation, the Spatial Interior concept started over eight years ago while sitting in a 65 C model with the side panels removed. I was amazed at the amount of room and set on a mission to not only create more elbow and shoulder space, but also add needed legroom. After an extended search, a plastics molding company was selected and the first hand- drawn design was completed. After all these years and multiple design changes, STC approved parts are in stock or production.

 

The side panels were only part of the equation. An installation procedure needed to be developed for the approval as well as use by future installers. I am pleased to report that these panels are now securely held without screws. Install labor will be held to a minimum as panels will be pretrimmed to coarsely fit into the different models.

 

Another major factor was the need to recondition, or in certain cases replace window trim and headliner parts. Years of outside storage and heat may result in the need for Plane Plastic parts. However, pleasing discoveries of a simple way to recondition deteriorated plastics and finish with an automotive aerosol product answered many questions. The finish materials perfectly coordinate with either the tan or gray Spatial panels.

 

One of the most difficult items has been designing a new door trim to replace the original style windlace. Now into the sixth design and multiple years, I finally have a one piece silicone trim that is held in place with a special adhesive. The design provides a pleasing appearance with room for the door to close while creating a large inside flap to accommodate the mating plastic parts. Again the screws are gone.

 

The other needed player was a professional upholstery company that appreciates the need for value in a vintage Mooney. After many visits and consultations with upholsterers, a company in Duluth, Minnesota has been selected. In addition to being our preferred choice for seat upholstery, they have helped design a practical, inexpensive and easily installed storage pocket set. Part of the seat design is to minimize the seat back depth while capturing lumbar support, adding both legroom and comfort. Carpet kit templates are either already available or being developed. We have standard seat design that gives a great look while capturing the comfort and extra space.

 

Putting all these players together has resulted in a refined interior that adds room with significant comfort and storage, is very easily removed and reinstalled for service, does not compromise weight while providing a pleasing clean look.

 

In answer to your finance question, I had initially set a $8,000 pricing goal for a complete all-leather interior with the new Spatial panels, professionally upholstered seats, carpets, storage pockets and some reconditioned original plastics. Depending on the extent of owner assistance and optional parts desired I am confident that this goal can be reached.

 

Having been in the Mooney sales and service business for more than three decades, I realized the importance of attractive pricing. A Spatial Interior panel kit price has not been absolutely established. I am however, expecting that the range will be initially in the $2,500 area for the ten new panels and required installation hardware. Approximately $500 for optional upholstered armrests and special design storage pockets will enhance the finished product. If needed, add four slim line professionally upholstered all leather seats for approximately $4,000. The new silicone door trim will be priced for less than $200. I would estimate finishing materials for reconditioning the remaining original window trim, headliner and upper baggage panels will be in the $150 range. Due to the size of the panels, shipping costs will be part of an estimate. For a hands on Mooney owner willing and able to do some of the work, we have met the original goal. Final approval will require an aircraft inspector and STC signoff. An interior can be completed in stages which may be helpful.

 

To help answer some of your questions, I have attached a few photos showing a 1966 E model used for the conformity inspection. The first photo shows the simplicity to accommodate an emergency gear system. I apologize for the length of this message, but wanted you to understand the concept and value. I am installing a complete kit in a 65 E model this next week. This opportunity will provide the answers to questions about the install process, amount of time required and ease of refinishing original plastics. If you are able to wait just a few days before making a final decision, I may be able to get you a reference from the 66 E model owner.

 

In any case, reply with questions or thoughts. If you care to call I can be reached at 320-444-3042. Thanks for your time.

Regards,

Bruce Jaeger

[carusoam]

Bruce has an excellent sense of price sensitive Mooney owners.

Best regards,

-a-

[isaacpr7]

To keep you guys in the loop with some more email traffic between Bruce (spatial interiors) and I, see the attached conversation below (for those interested on more information on these panels):

 

Isaac, I was pressured for time when leaving Texas earlier this week and did not get really good photos. I have reviewed my files and attached additional pictures that may be of interest. These are all from a C model cabin. Since the time of these photos I have enhanced the installation process, making the panels even more secure and precisely fitted.

 

The one thing I cannot show you is the plastic repair process. To make sure there is no confusion, the new side panels cover the space below the windows to include the lower section of the baggage compartment. The window trim, headliner, upper baggage compartment, top portion of the cabin door and baggage door cover are all to be reconditioned. Depending on the headliner installed in your Mooney, some of the original pieces can be replaced with new flat plastic panels.

 

I am pleased to report that I have had great success repairing original plastics with a two-part epoxy and filler. The back side secured fabric provides a strong flexible repair and the finish epoxy enables sanding to a perfectly smooth surface. Finishing with a sequence of color matched automotive aerosols results in a really nice look. Unless the original plastics are missing or very brittle I am confident they can be repaired. In the end, they will fit without need for the frustration of trimming.

 

Please feel free to reply with questions or thoughts. I will be staying in touch. Thanks for your time. Regards,

Bruce

 

Isaac, thought you might like to see the results of repairing a pretty deteriorated panel. This was for an example as this part was not reinstalled. Expect to hear from me again as new parts are in transit. Bruce

 

Bruce,

 

WOW! What exactly did you use to bond the two broken pieces together? I am repairing my original panels until I can save up for the spatial interiors; however, I have only worked on panel so far. I used a 9oz fiberglass cloth to reinforce the back and I was thinking about filling the cracks in the front with some ABS plastic slurry. The only thing that concerns me is gaining significant weight if I have to do this to all the panels but I don't think that will be the case because most of them look in decent shape. For those panels I think I might be able to use the slurry on the cracks. I have another question about the spatial interiors though. How much extra room is gained with these panels? Thanks for the updates Bruce.

 

 

Isaac,

 

After searching long enough one finally comes up with a solution. The pieces are put together the same way a large hole is covered. A 5 minute epoxy and fabric works well without adding weight. Even a corner can be repaired. Once this material sets up, which does not take long, a 2 part putty applied with a bit of moisture does the trick. This area can be sanded and finished. The finish coat I am using is an automotive product of a matching color. This includes use of a pore opening aerosol followed by multiple thin coats of a color coordinated aerosol oil base finish. The result is a satin flexible finish applied without use of any special equipment.

 

I do not know about a slurry product. I do know that my last repair included removal of a significant amount of fiberglass to be repaired by a vey thin coat of the materials reviewed above.

 

The amount of extra room created depends on the model. The earliest models have relatively straight side panels that use most of the space. The new recessed arm areas actually directly attach to the side skin. There is absolutely no more physical room available. Placing the armrest in a spot where it does not interfere makes a difference. The door panel does create more space as again it touches directly against the metal skin. The recessed area is designed to create room for the latching hardware.

 

For those who may want to reupholster seats, additional legroom can be created by design of the seat back. In addition, storage pockets are designed to fit into multiple spots without compromising room. This is to include at least one pocket on the spar front to accommodate an Ipad. If I was to guess, I would expect a typical increase of about two inches shoulder and elbow room along with about four inches rear seat legroom is possible.

 

I am expecting to receive a prototype storage pocket in the next couple days. I will keep forwarding you information as I can.

[isaacpr7]

Well guys,

 

I am on my way to Louisiana tomorrow for an FTX in the woods for almost a month. I can see good progress in the interior remodeling and feeling excided about the results so far. I will continue to work on the fiberglass work when I get back but here is a taste of some of the upholstery I was able to finish before leaving:

 

(After picture shows some bubbles but I fixed them after the picture was taken)

 

(I do not have before pictures of this panel because it did not exist. At least not in one piece.)

 

 

I am also planning to hide the hat rack compartment with a panel upholstered with the same gray leather. I will also have a large modern mooney logo embroidered on this panel.

 

I also found this vinyl product that has a carbon fiber design with a siticky back. The carbon fiber comes in different colors but I have not found a place I would like to use this yet. maybe I will use the white carbon fiber on the instrument panel but I have not made up my mind yet.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/130807477923?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[HRM]

 I will continue to work on the fiberglass work when I get back...

 

 

I spent some time with Bruce Jaeger working on my Royalite and I think his system is the best for repair. He uses Z-Poxy Quick Set Formula (5 minute) two-part epoxy and fiberglass cloth. Open up the hole or crack, mix the epoxy right on the back of the part, and cover the hole with thin strips of fabric embedded in the epoxy. After it cures, fill the finished side of the hole with JB Waterweld White Epoxy Putty, After that hardens, sand and finish. Like magic and stronger than the original.

 

Denatured alcohol cleans up any epoxy hardener and/or resin that didn't get mixed well.

[Dcflyn]

I spent the day preparing my own cabin for its new interior. Going with a light fabric on the ceiling similar to what I pulled out. I may have to remove the nose wheel well plastics again as the carpet will be tucked under.

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[Dcflyn]

And the photos...

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[isaacpr7]

Dcflyn,

 

Keep those pictures coming    Maybe they will give me some ideas that I have not thought about yet. You are lucky that the overhead air deflectors look intact. Mine have at least one piece broken in all but one deflector. I thought about taking it off and replicating it but looking at the parts manual it would be a PIA. You have to remove the entire air box in order to reach the screews from inside the box. I am still considering cutting the whole thing out and placing eyeball vents; however, this will be a project for another year because I cannot wait to finish the panels and get back to flying my baby

[scottfromiowa]

And the photos...

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Looks great. I painted ceiling air outlets and Nosegear surround in place while windows were out. A LOT of masking. Our carpet (Airtex) did not need tucking. Wish We would have painted J bar. That looks great!

[isaacpr7]

  My flight to Louisiana has been delayed due to WX, so I decided to keep working on the panels so there is less to do when I get back. I fiberglassed the entire back of super brittle parts and only strips on the ones that are not so brittle.

 

  Can someone give me tips on how to apply ABS plastic slurry? I know that I have to submerge the chips on acetone or MEK to create the slurry, but are there any techniques to apply it on the front of the panel? Someone posted JB weld as another alternative but I had already purchased the chips so I might as well use them.

 

  Another issue I am having on this project is that every time I use acetone to either clean tools or dilute resin, it wants to eat through my hands even if I wear very thick gloves. Does anyone know what type of glove material needs to be used to protect my hands? I even tried thick concrete ruber mixing gloves and my hands feel like they begin to freeze.

[Marauder]

Another issue I am having on this project is that every time I use acetone to either clean tools or dilute resin, it wants to eat through my hands even if I wear very thick gloves. Does anyone know what type of glove material needs to be used to protect my hands? I even tried thick concrete ruber mixing gloves and my hands feel like they begin to freeze.

Here is a guide. Looks like butyl rubber is best for extended contact.

http://amo-csd.lbl.gov/downloads/Chemical%20Resistance%20of%20Gloves.pdf

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[isaacpr7]

Here is a guide. Looks like butyl rubber is best for extended contact.

http://amo-csd.lbl.gov/downloads/Chemical%20Resistance%20of%20Gloves.pdf

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Thanks for the info Chris.

While searching for a pair of butyl gloves on the internet I found out that the gloves I use in the Army for NBC are of the butyl type 

[Bob_Belville]

Acetone "boils" between 130-135F. It evaporates quite rapidly at room temperature so the chilling effect of the heat of evaporation is unavoidable. But acetone is pretty innocuous. It is naturally occurring in the body. Years ago, we used large vats of acetone to clean ss mixing pots used to mix "cultured" marble, (thermoset polyester). The acetone is not penetrating your gloves, you're feeling the energy grab as the solvent evaporates. MEK on the other hand should not be breathed.    

[isaacpr7]

Acetone "boils" between 130-135F. It evaporates quite rapidly at room temperature so the chilling effect of the heat of evaporation is unavoidable. But acetone is pretty innocuous. It is naturally occurring in the body. Years ago, we used large vats of acetone to clean ss mixing pots used to mix "cultured" marble, (thermoset polyester). The acetone is not penetrating your gloves, you're feeling the energy grab as the solvent evaporates. MEK on the other hand should not be breathed.    

That's awesome Bob. Thanks for the lesson. I was worried about not wearing enough protections while working with it because of the strong smell. I tried using it to clean around my inboard fuel senders in order to see if they are still leaking. Acetone did a pretty good job at cleaning but it did not take out the very heavy stains though. Maybe that has to do with the fact that I did not scrub it long enough before my hands froze.

[Bob_Belville]

Nail polish remover is acetone. I've used acetone bare handed many times for small projects. It will dry the skin.

 

(I have no personal experience but from what I understand from our experienced "pot washers" who worked over the open vats all day long you might not want to be breathing acetone if you're hung over. Said to be an unpleasant combo.)